PHILOSOPHY IS KING

.....they have zero evidence FOR them also!!!! I don't see how you can say that they must be accepted if there is no evidence for or against them, we have to rely on tradition. I'm not saying they didn't die martyrs deaths and I'm not saying they did. What I'm saying is that the evidence for carries as much weight as the evidence against ie zilch.

.....you can't call "tradition" evidence! Its more like hearsay.

You say There are no sources and other evidence, just the tradition itself - that's the point I'm trying to make. Additionally, there are so many conflicting traditions about the death of various apostles without any supporting evidence that you'd be hard pressed to determine which tradition to take as the definitive one.If you think hearsay is evidence, try telling that to a judge. Stories change in the telling, bits are misunderstood, bits are embellished, bits are mistranslated, whatever, and to determine the actual story can be well nigh impossible. Can you give me one solid bit of evidence that the apostles ALL died martyrs deaths alone and could have avoided said death by recanting? Not tradition, not hearsay, not "In the opinion of Dr Scott", just one solid, verifiable piece of evidence which is irrefutable.

No, Willow, this is called asking you to support your assertions!

You say Yet earlier you say that no supporting evidence is needed since you don't consider there to be any evidence to the contrary. Which one is it, Willowtree, which one is it?I'm also a little bit fed up with you continually trying to denigrate thos who disagree with you by saying that they are closed-minded scientific types and wittering on about brainwashing. If you're so concerned about brainwashing, why don't you read some of your replies which deal at length with the heroic Dr Scott. What does that look like to you? You parrot his utterances as if they were dropping from the lips of God in front of you, when he's only giving you his opinion, and a pretty biased one at that.Yet again, you have attacked the person and not the point - a bad habit which you seem to be good at.