Faith and belief - The Almighty God revealed through his grandness

Hi Cedre,

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I think that you should give God a real serious thought.

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Time and time again I see this kind of reasoning from theists, mostly fundamentalists of one stripe or another.Exactly what makes you assume that people who disagree with you have not given God serious thought? I know I have. Cavediver clearly has as well. Indeed, most everyone here has given it serious thought, theists, atheists, deists, whatever. That is pretty much a prerequisite for joining a discussion board like this. Those who haven't given the matter any serious attention are very unlikely to register here. They are simply uninterested.Just because a person does not come to the same conclusion as you, does not mean that they have not considered the matter seriously and to be honest, such statements come across as pretty arrogant.As for your signature, well... The bill for the irony-meter you just blew up is in the mail.Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

Appeals to authority eh?

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Newton was one of the greatest scientific minds and he himself believed in a creator

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Newton also believed in alchemy, the Philosopher's Stone, the Elixir of Life, and the city of Atlantis. He is not thought not have believed in the Trinity and he was a practising homosexual.Are you now going to start pursuing the transmutation of lead into gold, just because Isaac Newton believed in it?

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so, to marvel at the universe is natural...its what makes every intelligent person conclude that there is an intelligent creator behind it

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If you're going to call Rahvin stupid, which he is very clearly not, you could at least spell his name right when you do it. Kind of undermines your argument otherwise...Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

Thanks for the clarification Peg,

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of course they are intelligent and i wasnt trying to imply that they were not, i was simply saying that intelligent people also believe in God.

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Any person who believes in a creator must by necessity believe that ALL humans are intelligent.

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Fair enough. I believe you when you say you had no ill intent, but in the future, you might like to be a little bit more careful about how you phrase such claims. The first version of your claim was a red rag to a herd of atheistic bulls who did not appreciate having their intellects belittled. If you had just been a little clearer, there might not have been such offence caused or taken.It appears then, that we are agreed that there are intelligent people who believe in gods and intelligent people who don't. Further, I hope we can agree that there are intelligent Christians, intelligent Hindus, intelligent Zoroastrians, etc. as well as stupid atheists, stupid Christians, etc.This is why appealing to the intelligence of those who hold an idea is considered fallacious. There are intelligent folks on all sides of the religious debate. At least some of them must be wrong.Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

Hi DA,I don't mean to butt in, but if you read on a bit, you'll find that Peg has already recanted that claim. Apparently it was not what she intended to say, just a case of poor phrasing. I think it's best to leave it at that. Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

Hello Cedre,

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O, man you folks are tireless

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Why thank you.

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you're a bunch of hypocrits

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No, we're hypocrites. If you're going to chuck insults at us, at least have the decency to spell them correctly.

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where in the world has mutations been seen to produce beneficial results

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Here; PubMedOn the other side of that link you will find details of how E-coli bacteria developed the novel ability to metabolise citrate. There is an interesting interview with the researcher who wrote this paper here, you will need Flash to view it though.

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or evolutionary change and natural selection to give rise to new individuals.

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Very silly. Do you look exactly like either of your parents? No? Then evolutionary change has created a new individual.

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lets take a look at the odds, the odds of getting two mutations that are related to one another...

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Let me stop you there. Why do you mention two mutations specifically? Why not talk about one? I'm curious, please indulge me with an answer.Of course, these type of post hoc probability calculations are pretty silly anyway. To calculate the probabilities of an event, one needs to know all of the variables that might have influenced that event. You don't know all those variables, so you are wasting your time. Sorry.So far, The Almighty God has revealed, through his grandness, that his latest devotee doesn't know much about science.Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade