Definition please

This forum, [forum=-6], is not one of the science forums, so your question raises a question in return: what constitutes disproof in this forum? What standards of evidence should be applied?--Percy

Hi daaaaaBEAR,I still think my question important to answer before considering your question about whether we can disprove demons. You're operating under the assumption that you have reasonable grounds for accepting the existence of demons, and Charles is posing rhetorical questions intended to get you to question those grounds. Your responses make clear that you believe you have far better grounds for accepting demons than Charles does for believing in a besheeted Satan raising Lazarus while going WOOOOO WOOOOO, but until you and Charles understand those grounds you're just going to go back and forth like this.I think Charles probably believes you accept demons on faith and not by evidence, and that all faith-based beliefs with no evidence have an equal possibility of being true.--Percy

Accepting the existence of demons on faith is one thing, believing you have evidence of demons is quite another. Are you applying scientific standards of evidence, or some other standard? If some other standard, then from the perspective of science your belief in demons is based upon faith, not evidence.--Percy

But you're pushing it here, because in Message 144 you said you'd observed the spirit realm: Do you really mean "observed"? Observed, as in the five senses observed? If so, can others (me, for example) also observe it? How would I go about observing it? Give me the instructions.I don't myself believe you've ever observed the spiritual realm, though I believe that you believe you have. This is at the heart of the point that Schraf has been hammering on. Your belief in demons is no different than an ancient Greek's belief in Zeus. Your belief that you've observed the spiritual realm of God is no different than an ancient Greek's belief that he observed the spiritual realm of Zeus. He was as sincere in his belief in Zeus as you are in God and Jesus.What we're asking you is the difference between you and this ancient Greek. Why was he wrong about his spiritual realm and you correct about yours?My original reply was triggered by your use of the word "observed". If by "observed" you meant a feeling in your mind that you interpreted as the spiritual realm then I have no objections. But if you really believe you observed the spiritual realm through one or more of your five senses then my gut level reaction is, "Tell me how!"--Percy

I originally responded because you said you had observed the spiritual world, but I see nothing in this that points conclusively or even tentatively to the spritual world as the source. Some possibilities:

• Someone made a weird sound.
• Auditory hallucination.
• An auditory misinterpretation of an unusual sound, perhaps someone's shoes against the floor.
• The sound came from somewhere else, a radio perhaps, not someone's mouth.
• A chorus of invisible a capella elves.
• Poltergeist.
• The person was temporarily possessed by Sun Ra.
• Auditory confirmation of the Christian spirtual world.

Concluding that you've actually observed the spiritual world requires more than just, "I can't explain this."--Percy

I regret the mocking tone claims like yours often have to deal with, but it's hard to avoid. For example, what is it about your claim of observation of the spiritual world that differentiates it from claims about things like alien abduction. To me they both seem equally ridiculous. So tell me something about your claim that makes it seem much more credible than alien abductions.My guess about what you heard? I know you won't accept this, but one of the other two people was having fun at your expense.--Percy