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Author Topic:   Definition please
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 31 of 164 (182767)
02-03-2005 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by tsig
02-03-2005 3:15 AM


Re: Yourself
Well, it is, but I tend to focus more on the NT as people seem to have a hard time understanding the OT.
Plus I am not an expert on the OT, so I do not wish to debate it.
But so far, I have read nothing in the OT to make me not believe in God.
People in this forum are famous for taking things out of context from the OT and using that as a reason to not believe in God. It is not neccesary to know the OT to know God either. It will help you understand things better as you go.
You can't qualify an absolute.
lol, OMG I was wrong, lol

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by tsig, posted 02-03-2005 3:15 AM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Brian, posted 02-03-2005 6:37 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 34 by tsig, posted 02-03-2005 7:11 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4987 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 32 of 164 (182769)
02-03-2005 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by riVeRraT
02-03-2005 6:20 AM


Hi RR.
How can you square this staement from you in message 23
Not to mention that the bible is 100% correct (especially the new testament).
With this statement:
Plus I am not an expert on the OT
If you are not an expert on the OT then how do you know that all of its claims are '100%' correct?
Surely you have to adjust your claim to 'I believe that the Bible is 100% correct'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2005 6:20 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2005 7:42 AM Brian has not replied

  
tsig
Member (Idle past 2937 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 33 of 164 (182771)
02-03-2005 6:46 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by riVeRraT
02-03-2005 5:50 AM


Re: Yourself
what makes up your "mind"?
Chemical reactions. That's why I eat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2005 5:50 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2005 7:40 AM tsig has replied

  
tsig
Member (Idle past 2937 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 34 of 164 (182775)
02-03-2005 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by riVeRraT
02-03-2005 6:20 AM


Re: Yourself
[q]People in this forum are famous for taking things out of context from the OT and using that as a reason to not believe in God. It is not neccesary to know the OT to know God either. It will help you understand things better as you go.[/qs]
Is the OT the word of god? If it is it seems neccesery to follow it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2005 6:20 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2005 7:41 AM tsig has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 35 of 164 (182778)
02-03-2005 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by tsig
02-03-2005 6:46 AM


Re: Yourself
What programs those chemical reactions?
What makes up your spirit?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by tsig, posted 02-03-2005 6:46 AM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by tsig, posted 02-03-2005 3:31 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 36 of 164 (182779)
02-03-2005 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by tsig
02-03-2005 7:11 AM


Re: Yourself
This is precisely what I am talking about. You took it out of context on your first reference to it.
You do not need to follow the OT.
Jesus came to fulfill the law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by tsig, posted 02-03-2005 7:11 AM tsig has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by ramoss, posted 02-03-2005 9:44 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 37 of 164 (182780)
02-03-2005 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Brian
02-03-2005 6:37 AM


Surely you have to adjust your claim to 'I believe that the Bible is 100% correct'.
Sure, why not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Brian, posted 02-03-2005 6:37 AM Brian has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 640 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 38 of 164 (182819)
02-03-2005 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by riVeRraT
02-03-2005 7:41 AM


Re: Yourself
Of course, 'fullfill' is not replace.
Do you like cheeseburgers? PorK? wearing mixed fabric?? No?? Not following the law.. off to heck with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2005 7:41 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2005 7:47 AM ramoss has not replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6901 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 39 of 164 (182856)
02-03-2005 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by tsig
02-03-2005 3:17 AM


Re: Yourself
quote:
Your avatar looks way to young to remeber that song.lol
My avatar has something to do with my affinity for trivia?
Gowon!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by tsig, posted 02-03-2005 3:17 AM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
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tsig
Member (Idle past 2937 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 40 of 164 (182911)
02-03-2005 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by riVeRraT
02-03-2005 7:40 AM


Re: Yourself
What programs those chemical reactions?
What makes up your spirit
Nothing has to program chemical reactions, they just happen.
Never found a spirit. Looked hard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2005 7:40 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2005 7:51 AM tsig has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 41 of 164 (183032)
02-04-2005 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by ramoss
02-03-2005 9:44 AM


Re: Yourself
Another perfect example of someone taking the whole thing (the bible) out of context.
If you read the OT, and understand what the word fulfill means(by knowing the prophecies), you would understand that it is no longer neccesary to eat that stuff. Its not what goes in your stomach, but what comes out of your heart.

This message is a reply to:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 42 of 164 (183033)
02-04-2005 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by tsig
02-03-2005 3:31 PM


Re: Yourself
Isaiah 40:31
but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
Do fully understand what the term "born again" means?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by sidelined, posted 02-04-2005 8:36 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6901 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 43 of 164 (183039)
02-04-2005 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by CK
02-01-2005 7:58 PM


Re: Yourself
Some are better off reading 'Mein Kampf' in Swahili.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Hey, Albert, I agree!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by CK, posted 02-01-2005 7:58 PM CK has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 44 of 164 (183044)
02-04-2005 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by riVeRraT
02-04-2005 7:51 AM


Re: Yourself
riVeRrat
they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
So if we find an example of a born again Chrstian who gets tired this would mean what exactly?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2005 7:51 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by apostolos, posted 02-04-2005 4:23 PM sidelined has replied
 Message 49 by riVeRraT, posted 02-05-2005 7:29 AM sidelined has replied

  
apostolos
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 164 (183139)
02-04-2005 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by sidelined
02-04-2005 8:36 AM


Isaiah 40:31
Sidelined, Brian, and many others here, it is good to see you are still here. I have been gone for about a year, but decided to breeze through once more. I noted your post and thougt I might be able to clarify things a bit. Let me say that I am not exactly sure how your post correlates with the orignally posted questions, but perhaps the information I provide can serve to direct things back to the original topic.
Let me begin by quoting the context of the verse. I must say that the context is really larger than what I am quoting, but these verses will serve, for now, as an immediate context.
"Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the
everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends
of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there
is no searching of his understanding.
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have
no might he increaseth strength.
Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the
young men shall utterly fall:
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their
strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles;
they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk,
and not faint."
Isaiah 40:28-31
In dealing with what you said there was some measure of accuracy. You mentioned an individual getting tired. This misses the mark a bit due to being an oversimplification but I think it can stand for now. Also, you mentioned born again Christians. I would like to point out that there were no born again Christians, as we define those words, at the time these verses were written down. However, there were a great multitude of people who believed in the same God that is worshipped by a "born again Christian" who is following the biblical pattern. I must say at this point that the preceeding statement goes beyond a mere definition of God and acceptance of the Bible to a thorough understanding of the principles for human life that God has put forth. Getting back to it...
In the immediate context, the verses are pointing the reader to God as a source of strength instead of their finding strength within themselves. Verse 30 refers to "youths" and "young men" because in a community, these are individuals who are expected to have strength and not be weakened or tired above others. Yet, the Bible says even these will fail. Then the contrast is made in verse 31 where the Bible says that those who are in dependence upon the LORD will not suffer this failure.
Does this mean that believers in the LORD will never be tired? No. The larger context makes it clear that those who are in dependence upon the LORD will be provided the strength and/or energy to accomplish that which is required as they individually place themselves in a resting position in God's plan, like a leaf being carried by a stream current. Please understand that I do not mean that a believer is to be inactive. Rather I am saying it is the strength of the LORD that makes the activity productive according to the plan that the LORD has established for that individual. Psalm 1 serves as an excellent support to this truth.
As far as relevance to what Flying Hawk asked, I think it is clear that I have a definition of God (though I would disagree and say that I merely aggree with the Bible's definition). Also, it is clear that there are moral implications derived from that definition, as the verses in question serve to illustrate. I do hope this has been some help. I will be glad to make another attempt if I have stated anything unclearly or created more questions than I answered.
Again, I have missed interacting with many of you and hope to find time to come through more often.
Russ
edited for grammatical correction
This message has been edited by apostolos, 02-04-2005 16:27 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by sidelined, posted 02-04-2005 8:36 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by sidelined, posted 02-04-2005 7:58 PM apostolos has not replied
 Message 48 by tsig, posted 02-05-2005 4:36 AM apostolos has not replied

  
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