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Author Topic:   How Do Scientists Believe in God and Evolution?
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 67 of 145 (468336)
05-29-2008 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by cavediver
05-05-2008 10:01 AM


The following statements appear to contradict one another, imo.
The Universe exists because God wills it so. The act of creation brings the entirety of the Universe into being - past and future included.
Both are part of the entire Universe and are thus part of that creation. No direct 'tinkering' is required.
Seems to me the requirement and force of God's will to create and sustain? the universe is "direct tinkering" in a mighty way.
Most, yes - miracles being direct interventions by God that do contradict physical laws.
So there is acceptance God does tinker via miracles? There is some sort of mechanism and avenue for this or not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by cavediver, posted 05-05-2008 10:01 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by cavediver, posted 05-29-2008 3:56 AM randman has replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 69 of 145 (468445)
05-29-2008 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by cavediver
05-29-2008 3:56 AM


I would suggets that that is because you are unfamiliar with viewing the Universe from the perspective of space-time physics.
I'd suggest the opposite, that though you are trained in such physics, you still are thinking linearly despite what you are saying. Note your next comment as an example.
I'm not sure I understand this. If a creator were to stop 'sustaining', would the Universe disappear? When would it disappear?
Of course it would because God, by definition being outside space-time, has created the universe from all points in time. It seems like you are still thinking linearly about this and hence didn't catch the fact "sustain" and "create" should be thought of as the same thing if you view the universe from "space-time physics" and accept a God/Creator from outside that space-time.
Who knows? If a god operates outside physical laws, how would one even begin to suggest a mechanism?
What are "physical laws"? If a mechanism is involved in doing things within the universe, isn't it by definition within "physical laws"?
In fact, why assume God operates outside physical laws at all? Or more to the point, why assume God operates arbitrarily outside of truth? The God of the Bible is Himself bounded by and works within wisdom and truth. You can separate physical and spiritual truth and wisdom if you want, but from a scientific perspective, it's all the same as both operate within the universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by cavediver, posted 05-29-2008 3:56 AM cavediver has not replied

  
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