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Author | Topic: Is man inherently good or inherently evil? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yes.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I say that humans do not fit into the animal kingdom quite nicely. Please so one way other than humans propensity to kill over philosophic disputes. Most animals do not do that at least. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
All animals do not understand, or think about philisophical ideas. Whether they do or not (and we have no way to test that yet), they certainly do not kill over them. The only animals that do that regularly humans. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If, however, humans are viewed as highly evolved animals, the concept of good and evil is very much internal and always subject to change of interpretation vs external and absolute. We have had several threads on whether or not there was absolute evil and so far, in every case, no one has been able to give an example of something that is absolutely evil. They can point to examples of horrific acts, but the have not been able to set any absolute standards that have stood up to analysis. The concept of good and evil is very much subjective and subject to change. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And IF we can properly and totally be classified as such, we are the only animal capable of making any sort of an observation. I'm not quite sure how you can support such a statement. Can you expand on what you mean by that? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Will an atheist go to heaven if he does good works? Yup. But I imagine he could get a by if he asked. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Ah, the diference between fairness and contract law.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
as I have stated before, can be reasonably translated as: "And if you call on God, who is impartial, pass the time of your stay here in fear." The reason it is more reasonable than your interpretation is because Peter goes on to say that we are redeemed (saved) through the blood of Jesus in the subsequent verses. But it doesn't say that at all. In fact, it returns again to the issue of behavior as so many of the passages throughtout the NT do. 1Peter:22
22: Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: The issue for so many of the fathers of the church was to diferentiate between the older tradition of buying forgivness through offerings and the newer requirment that you actually live a good life. It is saying that it is not by how much you have, not by who you are, not by how many offerings you make through the priests, but rather through your life, your actions, that you will be judged. It goes back to the two Great Commandments, Love GOD and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. These are action commandments. They are not philosophy, not profession, not belief. They say DO. Do love, do for others. Do stuff. It is quite clear. Peter is saying that GOD will judge you by your actions, not by your position or words. Look at verse 18:
18: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; This is saying the same thing. It's not the wealth that you accumulate, it's not your position, it's not following the rules laid down in Leviticus, it is not through professions of faith or belief; it is what YOU do and WHY YOU DO IT that is important. It's not doing good for gain, it's about doing good because that is the right, the godly thing to do. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Peter says it is through works.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Sure, and I believe that I did.
The sections that we were discussing in 1st Peter are a good example. I believe they are very clear that it is your actions and motives that will decide. The two Great Commandments are additional indicators as well as Matthew 25. But just about every section of the Bible seems to me to be inclusive as opposed to exclusive. Christ died for all, sinner and non-sinner, believer and non-believer. All of his actions as laid out support that. So Christs death and resurection was a full and complete sacrifice and oblation for all our sins. What they will be the determining factor between salvation and damnation? Will it be profession, what people say? I don't believe so. The Bible seems to support that it will be through their actions, works, and the motives behind those works. Love GOD and love others as you love yourself. It really is that simple.
edited to add: Since salvation is OT you might want to wander over to Message 1 for any responses. This message has been edited by jar, 10-07-2004 02:19 PM Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Nudge, nudge.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You and several others here love to pull out just one line. But 1st. Peter 1 is not all that long, only 25 lines. Read the whole thing. As Rrhain and I have been saying, 1st. Peter 1 clearly says it is by works, not only by Faith.
Here is all of 1st. Peter 1 for folk to read.
1: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4: To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5: Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6: Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 10: Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12: Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 13: Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14: As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16: Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 17: And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19: But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21: Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22: Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24: For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you The important part of 1st. Peter is that it is re-enforcing the move from the Theocratic Priestly society to a more egalitarian one. It is saying that your rank, station, wealth or position will get you nowhere. It is saying that how you lead your life, how you behave, what you do will count far more than your wealth or who you are. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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