Is man inherently good or inherently evil?

I have a headache right now, maybe thats why I do not see your point, butI think both are saying the same thing.How exactly is Peter saying we do sins?How exactly is Paul saying that deeds buy us a ticket rice a roni street?

Is it possible they were trying to take into account of how differently we speak now as compared to then?
Then a literal translation might be mis-understood?

1 Peter NIV5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.1 Peter KJV5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.??

He is not sayiong by works alone.He is saying that by faith you will do works, that God will see. You cannot do those works of the Lord unless you have the faith. So it is not by works alone that will get you into heaven.In order to be with Christ, you must be in Christ.
You cannot believe in him, or have faith in him, and not do his works.
It would be like not believing in him.I have found that in my life, once baptized with the Holy Spirit, there is no way I could go on without doing works for him, and helping others in his name for his glory. I also feel born again, a new creation in Gods eyes, he spoke to me in my heart and thoughts, and told me so. It is my desire to dedicate my life to his works.I think this expresses what Peter is trying to say. I find it so amazing that I feel the same way he did 2000 years later, without actually reading 1 Peter, before I felt it. Our God is an unchanging God.

That he is justified by FAITH, not by the law.

I think Peter is saying that God will judge you by your works, not accept you by your works. 2 different things. That is a mistake you are making. If you do good works, that is good, and God sees it, but it is not the work of the Lord unless you say it is. When I do good works, I do it for him, not for my own personal gain.
*edit* Thats not to say I do not enjoy helping others, because I do. I get satisfaction knowing I am doing the work of the Lord, and he is using me to accomplish these things. I now do things that I previously didn't do before.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 10-25-2004 08:57 AM

If the way to God is the way of faith and of acceptance, then all boasting in human achievement is gone. There was a certain kind of Judaism which kept a kind of profit and loss account with God. In the end a man often came to a frame of mind in which he rather held that God was in his debt. Paul's position was that every man is a sinner and God's debtor, that no man could ever put himself back into a right relationship with God through his own efforts and that grounds for self-satisfaction and boasting in one's own achievement no longer exist.But, a Jew might answer, that might be well enough for a Gentile who never knew the law, but what about Jews who do know it? Paul's answer was to turn them to the sentence which is the basis of the Jewish creed, the sentence with which every synagogue service always began and still begins. "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one God" (Deut.6:4). There is not one God for the Gentiles and another for the Jews. God is one. The way to him is the same for Gentile and Jew. It is not the way of human achievement; it is the way of trusting and accepting faith.But, says the Jew, does this mean an end of all law? We might have expected Paul to say, "Yes." In point of fact he says, "No." He says that, in fact, it strengthens the law. He means this. Up to this time the Jew had tried to be a good man and keep the commandments because he was afraid of God, and was terrified of the punishment that breaches of the law would bring. That day has for ever gone. But what has taken its place is the love of God Now a man must try to be good and keep God's law, not because he fears God's punishment, but because he feels that he must strive to deserve that amazing love. He strives for goodness, not because he is afraid of God, but because he loves him. He knows now that sin is not so much breaking God's law as it is breaking God's heart, and, therefore, it is doubly terrible.Take a human analogy. Many a man is tempted to do a wrong thing, and does not do it. It is not so much that he fears the law. He would not greatly care if he were fined, or even imprisoned. What keeps him right is the simple fact that he could not meet the sorrow that would be seen in the eyes of the one who loves him if he made shipwreck of his life. It is not the law of fear but the law of love which keeps him right. It must be that way with us and God. We are rid forever of the terror of God, but that is no reason for doing as we like. We can never again do as we like for we are now for ever constrained to goodness by the law of love; and that law is far stronger than ever the law of fear can be.

No, I said it is good because creates it. This bad habit you have, has to stop between me and you. You cannot go around putting dumb words into peoples mouths like that. I will report you if you keep doing it. It is insulting what you have just accused me of. I do it for God's love NOW. Before I did it just for good. God's love equals the greater good, and represents humanity.You are missing the point and creating a mind set, that you think all christians follow.We are a human race, we are unified by God, in that he created us to be a group. When a Christian does the work of the Lord he does it for the good, God, with Love, and the human race. Not because he needs a tax right off, or for anyone of those reasons seperate from the others.You would have it that those who do things just for the good, is good enough. I say, you can't judge that, and niether can I. Or can you judge me or my works.

But that is how it was thought of back then. Jesus taught us the difference. The Jews are slowing changing their ways because they realize that their way is incorrect, or missing the happy ending. The Jews need Jesus to complete their own prophecies.Look at how many things have changed for the Jews since Christ.
But that is another topic. I believe what I described explains that verse perfectly.

You keep saying the Peter says works, I disagree. I do not get that from reading the bible.

I haven't done anything rhain, you have accused me through your process of logic. You seem to think you can see into my mind or something. You also think you are greater than I. Too bad, it will be your demise.Stop making false accusations, otherwise we cannot talk to each other then.Where does God come down and admit to creating evil? But I have directly said that I cannot judge that. But it is clear to me when someone is doing work for the Lord or if he is doing it for the good.You say goodness, I say Godnesss. There clearly is a difference, and neither one is selfish like you claim. This is your main problem. You seem to think you can figure someone out through your thought process. You are an inciter. Instead of calmly asking me what I meant by this, you have claimed that you know what I meant by this. You put words in peoples mouths, which is counter productive, and not condusive to the conversation. You need to check that at the door. You can judge all you want. Just I wouldn't suggest judging others in a fashion that you yourself wouldn't want to be judged.
Plus yours is not the final judgment.We all know right and wrong, but in order to fully judge something you need to know all the variables in how that thing got to be where it is at. Something we may never know.I cannot judge you, because I do not know your life story. I have no right to tell you, that you are going to heaven or hell, based on the few things I see here. God knows what you are capable of, and he is the one who will make the final judgement.I can judge you in a fashion, of whether I want to talk to you or not.
I mean even Jesus gave up on people after he gave them a chance. If you choose not to accept Jesus, than that is your choice. I will never be able to understand your choices, or claim if they are right or wrong, its not my job.

Like God, he left it up to us. It is our responsiblility. With his teachings that would happen, if we followed them. He was a warlord of the mind. Isn't this like leading the witness or something?
Admin?

Congradulations, you have just called all Jews who follow Jesus idiots. You need to find a new way of listening, because your the only one who deosn't understand what I say, self check yourself first. Demise does not equal Hell. But if you feel that way about yourself, then see ya later. Um no. Like I said before, and God wrote that with his hand? Um no again. Wrong again, no need to judge someone who constantly gets things wrong. Then its not judging if I say it will be your demise.
What else would you expect of someone who keeps getting things wrong? There is only one path to righteousness.If you do something for the good, and the good comes from withinside you. Who are you doing it for? But the good is not selfish. So this is how you judge others?BZZZZT!Pascal's Wager. I'm so sorry, rhain. Johnny, tell him what parting gifts he has!Well, Bob, rhain has won himself a lifetime of anguish in someone else's hell! Yes, that's right. After spending all of his life fighting against Satan and worshipping the Christian god, rhaingets a reward of going straight to Hades for his hubris. He'll be sentenced to solve a series of puzzles for which the instructions can be read in many ways. Every attempt to glean more information will be met with "Since it would just be a waste of my time to tell you, I won't." Of course, every proposed solution will conflict with something in the contradictory instructions. This being for his continued insistence that those around him are unworthy of explanations.But, he'll never look bad because he'll have an afterlife-time supply of Greaser hair formula.You didn't really think that the god that truly exists was the Christian one, did you?Apologizing is something you do not seem to be capable of, no matter how many times your wrong. Self check again. No I haven't, that was your mis-interpretation, for which you have not apologized. I apologized for your mis-interpretation. I'm sorry you feel that way.You put me down for thinking that I am sending you to hell, yet you send me to hell rhain. That is a hypocrite, which is a form of lying. Lying is a sin, and if you break one sin you have broken them all. Thanks for murdering me rhain, you are a murderer.
So now say you walk outside your house today rhain, and a car strikes you dead (hypothetical) and you are standing at the gates of heaven in front of God's glory.
What are you going to say to God about your sins?What are you going to say to God about your sins?What will you say?This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 10-31-2004 07:27 AMThis message has been edited by riVeRraT, 10-31-2004 07:29 AM

It says that?

Hey rhain, I bet you can't figure out which one is out of sequence: