Is christianity, or religion in general, a belief of convinience?

I tend to find it's just the american based christian churches that adopt that attitude, like the JW's, mormons, and sevvies...Being polynesian and from New Zealand I can see how that attitude of intolerance based on fundamentalist christian beliefs could grate on people from another culture and can be misconstrued as a stereotypical american trait.I had a woman from The JW's come round and tell me I was a slave to babylon and she wasn't. I looked at her with her coiffed up hair and make up, gold jewelry and labeled clothes thinking...yeah right and promptly set her straightI asked a young mormon missionary once who had taken me on as a possible convert where heaven was and he didn't seem to knowI try to avoid talking politics, religion and reality to people who aren't willing to listen to an alternative perspective but sometimes I just can't help myself.My brother and I can talk smack for hours about it yet he is fundamentally a christian and as much as we disagree he still loves me for who I am not what he is. Having said that we do share a common morality that is essentially based on "the golden rule".What I find annoying is the whole post apocalyptic heavenly bliss thing for the chosen few. It's almost like denying yourself earthly pleasures so that when heaven on earth arrives you can literally party like there is no tomorrow.Just quietly, but if heaven is full of righteous christians on a big picnic with dud clothes and crap music then I'd rather not be there...

My criterion for determining personal truth and reality1)accept nothing as fact
2)question everything
3)determine your own truth
4)define your own realityIt's an ongoing process whereby you constantly evaluate data, assimilate it into your perspective and build upon a foundation of previously accumulated and assimilated data...as an example, take leprachauns1)don't accept their existence as fact or fiction just because somebody said it's true or false2)question the validity of their existence by researching, studying, comparing, analyzing, look for answers everywhere and anywhere and not just to prove it but also to disprove it3)based on what you have learnt determine what you believe to be the truth about leprachauns4)the knowledge you now have puts you in the position of being able to define a reality that allows for the existence or not of leprachaunsIf someone else comes up with more data concerning leprachauns assimilate it into your knowledge data base and adjust your truth if neccessary then re define your realityYour truth may differ from somebody elses so here is where faith in your abilities and trust in the process by which you arrived at your truth becomes paramount in being able to speak with confidence about the reality of leprachauns existingas an exercise substitute leprachauns for let's say...GodLastly never think you know the absolute truth or the ultimate reality because your personal perception of truth and reality will only ever be your opinion...Descartes thought he had arrived at the fundamental truth by stating "I think therefore I am" I think I have improved upon it by sayingI think, I feel , I know, I am right......you may think otherwise so if you think I am wrong then the onus is on you to prove it and I will gladly recantnothing is perfect
in the space where nothing exists
will one find perfection
the perfect nothing......accept nothing as fact

to hangdawg...I've actually found cannabis as a drug to help with my critical thought in much the same way as kaneh bosm of the old testament, in moderation of course No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.hempbc.com/magazine/mayjune96/kanehbosm.html

I think>> I feel>> I know>> I'm right...It's a subjective process we all use to justify our perception of truth and the righteousness of itstupid ???...yeah probably, because of the subjective nature of individuality we will never gain consensus but on a collective level we march blindly towards who knows ???God maybe...I'm bored...excite me please

still quibbling over semantics. Don't you get it ???Christ is "THE WAY" etc...any body who follows "THE WAY" regardless of belonging to a or any religious institutiton is a christian whether they know it or not and whether they want to accept it or not!!!you can't deny the way to a good life is to strive to follow "THE TRUTH" of "THE WAY" in which Jesus lived "THE LIFE" that leads to an awareness of the creator...learn the lesson of the golden rule !!!the rest is you guys complicating things to prove how clever you are to each other and for what respect on a message board ???...grow uplive and learn, evolve or diesimple really

is what the essenes taught and lived...the writers of the dead sea scrolls...and from what Ifen says in another thread "the way" is what Lao Tzu practised and taught alsoJesus in his missing 18 years between chastising the pharisees at 12yrs and beginning his ministry at 30yrs was taken to the homelands of the wise men present at his birth and taught...the wayso when he claimed he was "the way", he was claiming the personification of it's practise in man as a means to know the creator

You only took offense at my remark about proving how clever you are trying to be but if it wasn't true the why did it offend you and why bother responding about only that in the context of my post why not pull me up on what my point was and rip that to shreds ???I mean really... don't you think you're over analyzing an extremely simple concept to prove yourself right, another person wrong and for what purpose ???respect, prestige, rewards, recognition, to prove how insightful and strategically skillful you are on a message board on the internet...point proven???Dude get over yourself...it's just a message board tucked away in a tiny corner of cyberspace not an international competition so your analogies mean little. But if it is a competition then you can be the financial, award winning, olympic chess champion of this message board and I'll be the arrogant child that needs to grow up just to make you feel better...OK, happy now ???your prize can be another verbose post complete with boring quotes full of sound and fury signifying nothingwake up and smell the coffee sleeping dragonMy opinion is creative..yes, baseless...no, speculations...just like everyone elses just not as bombastic, supported by literature...already quoted from...Tell ya what, try posting your real name, age and credentials cross reference all your sources and name them...I'm sure we can find somebody to peer review it for you and then get everyone else to do the sameYou want answers ??? It appears you wouldn't know one if it crawled up your leg and bit you on the ass, let alone if I or anyone else gave you one and I doubt you'd admit to it anyway.You'd rather argue some inane point to where everyone just breezes past your posts for fear of nodding off midway. I too wish to learn but you ain't said jack worth noting mister, now why don't you run along and let the mods do the moderating... eh ???If they think I need scaling down then sweet as, no worries it's their boardnow have yourself a beautiful day also...

sorry Ned...my point still stands, understanding christ is not rocket surgery and it annoys me to see people, churches, individuals etc...try and make it out to beAn indigenous person of virtue living how Christ did but in a remote jungle is just as likely to recieve any rewards in an afterlife irrespective of their knowledge of Christ as any of the most pious and righteous of his followers and can rightly be called a christian as in christlike because a rose by any other name still smells as sweetcheers

Not at all Mr Hambre.Christ taught a process and lived by example. The process was called "the way" a means to come to the father and before christians were called such they were simply known as followers of "the way". It was called "the way" by the essenes who cared for his needs in his early years and gave him the tools and knowledge to fulfil jewish prophecy..The ME he is referring to is the personification of "the way" as in the process. The truth of it is reflected in how you live your life as he proved. It is essentially the same process that all faiths and people that live a virtuous life follow regardless of what they call it.Knowing that, re-read the whole passage from which you quoted and you will understand Jesus true meaning of his seemingly self aggrandizing statement.Most christian churches have essentially twisted that passage to mean a physical belief in Jesus the God as some gate keeper that needs to be worshipped and idolised according to rules they made up themselves and the only means by which you may come unto the father is through their own particular knowledge of christ.That teaching is straight up false and provides a means for churches to set up rules and other processes that essentially take you away from the simple truths he espoused and lived.Jesus came to destroy all those rules and he did. If you re read the passage as if you were Jesus and you practised the way. It becomes a personal affirmation that states you are yuor own messiah and none will pass unto the father except through you and "the way" you live your life.I'm not going to post links or scripture as that is another problem the whole spiritual laziness thing of people wishing to be spoonfed without doing any thinking for themselves or studying...which is exactly what this thread is aboutForget the moral relativism of religions jockeying for bragging rights to God. Know yourself and the truth of it practise the golden rule and that will suffice. let God the creator take care of the rest.Why should we accept the words of men telling us what their interpretation is of scripture when yours can be just as valid ???You are absolutely right about formal religion being a non costructable set by an external agent. It is what you want it to be but the proof of the pudding is in the tasting. If it tastes bitter spit it out if it tastes bland add some seasoning soon you will arrive at your own recipe for spiritual nourishment.

denying yourself and allowing God's spirit to guide you...Isn't that what all the faiths teach..islam for instance means submission or surrender, buddhists talk about the 4 noble truths of sufferingboth imply denying yourself to the will of the creator and define "the way" so in essence by your definition, they could be called christiansyes or no ???Tell me about this spirit of God. Is it exclusive to christians ??? Do
christians have a monopoly on God or is it that just dogma to keep the faithful in check and the church in business ???

Skipped past it for obvious reasons...Sleeping Dragon is THE WINNER of the most intelligent person in this thread and has already claimed his prize...further competitors need not apply"The Old Master, Lao Tzu (which is what Lao Tzu means) was so semantically modern in his understanding when he said the truth is nameless but in order to speak of it he had to call it something so he called it the Way, but the way that can be named is not the true way." - ifenGrow up Sleeping Dragon, live and learn, evolve or die, do your own home workschools out !!!

I would suggest he do his own homework stating his parallels of Lao Tzu and Zen buddhism as a point of discussion and start a new thread...Once again Christianity is not the name Jesus gave for his teachings he was a follower of "the way" and I suspect that he didn't wish to give it a name...Lao Tzu in referring to the way that cannot be named could be paraphrasing the adage that "those that know don't tell and those that tell don't know" and that the reason it cannot be named is because "the way" facilitates a personal relationship with the creator that defies adequate expression in linguistic terms.The only thing obvious about SD's recent posts is his inability to grasp it...give it a rest SD. I said you were the most intelligent winner here.What more do you want ???

you want concrete facts on religion ???Lay some foundations, build a church and start preaching them. If you can find them. Determining the facts is a subjective process which results in believing your opinion to be fact,thus I hold my speculations to be truth but only to me.I think>> I feel>> I know>>I'm rightThe truth is not set in stone or in concrete. It is you and in you and God will judge the relative merits of your personal truth.A true religious/spiritual person that has a personal relationship with God the creative force can arrive at the house of God by any number of paths.I would put it to you that these 'enlightened' people of all faiths share a homogeneity in thought and action regardless of having known of the existence of Christ. The proof being reflected in their actions and interactions with others not by their knowledge of the definitions/interpretations of scriptures.Christ didn't come for those who know God he came for those who didn't and showed "the way" by the truth of his life. I've already stated how I interpret his claims to being "the way" and he didn't say he was the ONLY way, that is christian dogma againI don't know what happens in the afterlife only the dead do and they're not telling but in the scenario you postulated i believe the Dalai lama would recognise God in Christ as Christ would recognize the Dalai lama as a man of God if that is what the Dalai lama "really" is.I agree totally with the one spirit, one "absolute" truth, one way but that "absolute" defies categorisation in linguistic terms such as Lao tsu stated, by naming it means it is not "absolute" but your personal truth...I also believe in one love, Jah love and no manmade institution especially the christian church has a monopoly on the one spirit, truth or loveI truly believe it is that simple, the rest is unneccessary complication. Occams razor - Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem, or "Entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity"Imagine a tribe in the deepest jungle practising the tenets of the golden rule in harmony with nature and a missionary turns up touting "the way" yet he engaged in paedophilia, sodomy and violence...Who would get to heaven in the christian sense ???accept nothing as fact
question everything
determine your own truth
define your own realityBE YOUR OWN MESSIAHIt's what Jesus did

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Please, show me where Deoxyribonucleic Acid is mentioned in scripture and I will immediately convert to your religion.

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too funny