Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,918 Year: 4,175/9,624 Month: 1,046/974 Week: 5/368 Day: 5/11 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Percy is a Deist - Now what's the difference between a deist and an atheist?
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2508 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 198 of 375 (500549)
02-27-2009 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by RAZD
02-27-2009 7:57 AM


Re: Why the reluctance to accept the objective reality of world views?
RAZD writes:
Yes, showing that people come to different conclusions on things with no clear conclusion, with no clear pro or con evidence, is really an outrageous use of the concept.
Enjoy.
So, you're supportive of the idea that a miracle based view of origins should have a prominent place in any education system, then?
It is a popular world view, and miracles, like deities, cannot be disproved.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by RAZD, posted 02-27-2009 7:57 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2508 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 204 of 375 (500729)
03-02-2009 7:28 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by RAZD
03-01-2009 8:08 PM


Anything goes!
RAZD writes:
My "implicit assertion" is nothing more than my stated assertion: when you run out of evidence pro or con, and when you run off into what you consider logical extrapolations, you are basing your conclusions on your opinions concerning what is a logical extrapolation, and thus two different people can reach contradictory conclusions from the same evidence. The plain fact that contradictory conclusions can be reached is, to my humble way of looking at such things, evidence that such extrapolations do not provide a means of testing them for validity.
So, this world view is as valid as any by your way of thinking.
Omphalos hypothesis - Wikipedia
As soon as you opt for a belief in a supernatural proposition for which there's no evidence, but which cannot be disproved, anything goes. The arguments against omphalism are the same as those made by some of us as a reason for not believing in gods. There's no positive evidence for such propositions, and strong evidence of the human tendency to make such things up.
None of this is a serious attempt to stop you believing in your unknowable entities whose state, in relation to the concept of existence, presumably cannot be known, but rather an attempt to illustrate how most atheists probably differ from deists in their approach to the idea of gods (for the sake of the topic).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by RAZD, posted 03-01-2009 8:08 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Straggler, posted 03-02-2009 10:15 AM bluegenes has not replied
 Message 208 by RAZD, posted 03-02-2009 7:20 PM bluegenes has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2508 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 211 of 375 (500888)
03-02-2009 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by RAZD
03-02-2009 7:20 PM


Re: Anything goes when you ignore the actual argument.
RAZD writes:
My position is simple: science and logic can only get you so far, in finding the "ultimate answer to the questions of life, the universe and (oh) everything" -
I agree entirely.
RAZD writes:
and that when you exceed that boundary you cannot claim to be correct or right ... or logical.
Which is a good reason not to exceed it. Instead, you say, with honesty: "I do not know the ultimate answer to to the questions of life, the universe, and everything, or even if there is such a thing". Simple.
RAZD writes:
No matter how hard you try you will never derive or deduct a real answer, rather that what you will get is a conclusion consistent with your world view. You will, of course, also conclude that your answer is logical and rational.
One doesn't need to try to answer unanswerable questions. By definition, it's a rather pointless passtime, don't you think?
My "world view" is that honesty is the best policy, and that this thing called Faith is unnecessary, and fundamentally dishonest.
However, if you're going to have Faith, I'd recommend the number 42, as it's as good as anything else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by RAZD, posted 03-02-2009 7:20 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2508 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 233 of 375 (501246)
03-05-2009 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by mark24
03-05-2009 10:17 AM


Re: Possibility and Probability
mark24 writes:
So is there evidence of UFO's or not? Should be a yes or no answer, shouldn't it?
Should it? Why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by mark24, posted 03-05-2009 10:17 AM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by mark24, posted 03-05-2009 11:10 AM bluegenes has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2508 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 237 of 375 (501277)
03-05-2009 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by mark24
03-05-2009 11:10 AM


Re: Possibility and Probability
mark24 writes:
Because either there is evidence, or there isn't. A question with only two possibilities asking a choice between the two requires only a yes or no.
Mark
There's an adjective at the beginning of UFO that deserves consideration. Given that, the evidence, obviously, is overwhelming. Why do you ask, when it's obvious?
So, I was questioning your question. Did you mean "is there evidence for intelligent alien life forms visiting this planet"?
And if so, although young RAZD would like to see this question as having some kind of obscure relationship to his belief in magical beings, do you see a connection?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by mark24, posted 03-05-2009 11:10 AM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by mark24, posted 03-05-2009 2:15 PM bluegenes has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2508 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 239 of 375 (501291)
03-05-2009 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by mark24
03-05-2009 2:15 PM


Re: Possibility and Probability
But you missed the context.
Perhaps. But do you see speculation in relation to life forms existing elsewhere as equivalent to speculation about elves and fairies?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by mark24, posted 03-05-2009 2:15 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by mark24, posted 03-07-2009 6:25 AM bluegenes has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024