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Author Topic:   God, The Supernatural And the Three Laws
General Nazort
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 147 (167198)
12-11-2004 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Buzsaw
12-10-2004 9:16 PM


Re: Oh dear!
Buzz writes,
I'm not telling you to believe anything. I'm simply presenting to you and others that it appears from the texts cited that these laws are satisfied by the supernatural. After all, if the supernatural exists, it is part and parcel of the universe. So it has a whole lot to do with the universe and it's laws, and I think it's facinating to see how it works within the three laws.
I thought the definition of supernatural was the exact opposite. Supernatural means "above nature," the universe is part of nature, so if God is supernatural he is not part of the universe. Unless your definition of the universe is everything that exists. In that case what word would you like to use to refer to the universe in the first sense?
I have always contended that the universe has forever existed and that it will have no end. It only changes. This also accomodates the first law that nothing can be created or destroyed. your notion that the Universe will sometime be gone does not appear to be good science, for it violates the first law.
So you don't believe in Genesis 1:1?

If you say there no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Buzsaw, posted 12-10-2004 9:16 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Buzsaw, posted 12-11-2004 10:09 PM General Nazort has replied

General Nazort
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 147 (167303)
12-12-2004 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Buzsaw
12-11-2004 10:09 PM


Re: Oh dear!
The word supernatural is a word we use in reference to that which operates beyond normal physical capability as practiced on planet earth.
You said "the universe is part of nature." No, that's not it. If you had said, "that which is natural exists in the universe," you'd have been more accurate. The word universe includes everything by definition, according to my dictionary, so nature exists in the universe.
Ok, if you want to use the universe to mean everything that exists, then that is fine.
Then my question becomes, why does the supernatural have to follow natural laws? God exists outside of the natural world, it makes no sense for him to have to follow natural laws such as the 3 laws of thermodynamics. He created them, for heavens sake!
Off topic, but nothing is said in Genesis one specifically about the universe. It addresses some things in the universe to the effect that whenever they were made, god did it.
This arises from our different understandings of the word unverse. I guess I should ask if you believe the natural world has been around forever? (which would contradict Gen 1:1)

If you say there no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Buzsaw, posted 12-11-2004 10:09 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Buzsaw, posted 12-12-2004 10:52 AM General Nazort has replied

General Nazort
Inactive Member


Message 132 of 147 (167587)
12-13-2004 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by lfen
12-12-2004 7:26 PM


Re: On topic.
I don't know why I'm finding this so funny, Buz takes great pride and pleasure in his wild parody of science and the rest of us just tear our hair out! I'm finding this scenario hilarious. Brad appears to know sciences but insists on writing incomphrehensive turgid parody? of some sort of writing. Buz writes straight forward English it's just that it's raving nonsense. Buz annoys more people than Brad simply because at first blush it looks like he is discussing something.
Might as well laugh as tear one's hair out over the inevitable. I imagine Buz is a decent person but I'm not going to try and teach him science it just isn't going to take.
I must agree, not sure whether to laugh or cry.

If you say there no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by lfen, posted 12-12-2004 7:26 PM lfen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by lfen, posted 12-13-2004 1:12 AM General Nazort has not replied

General Nazort
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 147 (167588)
12-13-2004 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Buzsaw
12-12-2004 10:52 AM


Re: Oh dear!
But by definition of universe, God does not exist outside of the universe. Since it is observed that the td laws seem to prevail in the area of the universe observable to us, it would make sense that all levels of life and matter which we believe to be present in the universe would likely satisfy these observable laws.
Yes you've explained that. I am asking about the natural world, not the universe. Why should God have to follow natural laws if he is supernatural and created the natural world?

If you say there no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Buzsaw, posted 12-12-2004 10:52 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Buzsaw, posted 12-13-2004 9:46 AM General Nazort has replied

General Nazort
Inactive Member


Message 141 of 147 (167719)
12-13-2004 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Buzsaw
12-13-2004 9:46 AM


Re: Natural World
Hey buzz, I'm sorry if I have offended you, I did't mean to.
You're missreading me. Please tell me where you think I have said God must follow natural laws. Go to my op.
You seemed to be implying it in this post, where you make no distinction between the entire universe and the created natural world:
I'm not telling you to believe anything. I'm simply presenting to you and others that it appears from the texts cited that these laws are satisfied by the supernatural. After all, if the supernatural exists, it is part and parcel of the universe. So it has a whole lot to do with the universe and it's laws, and I think it's facinating to see how it works within the three laws.
When you say The universe and it's laws this seems to imply the laws of the natural universe such as the 3 td laws you are talking about.
I guess I could see how the supernatural transfer of power may be somewhat similar in appearance to the transer of heat of the td laws, but they are so dissimilar that making a comparison is a stretch at best and all in all un-usefull.

If you say there no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Buzsaw, posted 12-13-2004 9:46 AM Buzsaw has not replied

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