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Author
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Topic: former speed of light
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 19 of 230 (118211)
06-24-2004 8:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 13 by simple
06-24-2004 4:33 AM
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Re: Is it really so easy?
arkathon
Well, "seem to" may be your impression, but it is more deep rooted than that. But, rather than get into a big thing about how well founded such ideas might be, what I am looking for is some educated person to clearly propose to us reasons why it is impossible The simple answer is that no it is not impossible. But,like the man said,you do not appreciate that the problem is not whether it is possible or not but whether it is going on or not. You imply that there is a spiritual dimension. Ok that is not impossible.However the onus is now on you to show us this is happening.Please feel free to make your case.It is now time to "get into a big thing about how well founded such ideas might be". Put up or shut up.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 4:33 AM | | simple has not replied |
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 53 of 230 (118546)
06-25-2004 1:38 AM
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Is there a penalty for feeding the trolls? It would appear that this topic is fodder for the little beasties.Oh,well you cannot have a picnic without inviting in some ants. 
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 63 of 230 (118606)
06-25-2004 8:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 59 by simple
06-25-2004 3:32 AM
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Re: lazy, crazy speed of light
arkathon
. Godless speculation is not evidence. Why did you use the term Godless applied to specultion not being evidence? You obviously have an axe to grind.
Let's not make it sound like you have some evidence to suggest there is no spirit world, or spirit light! You don't, cause there is Evidence does not suggest there is a spiritual world otherwise you would give us a means of understanding where yours is instead of making claims about something that is speculation only.That there is no spiritual world is exactly what the evidence points to since since there is no evidence of a spiritual world. Hence the need for faith.Faith is not evidence but the crutch to support assertions that have never been evidence based. This message has been edited by sidelined, 06-25-2004 07:39 AM This message has been edited by sidelined, 06-25-2004 07:39 AM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 59 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 3:32 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 67 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 5:02 PM | | sidelined has not replied |
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 78 of 230 (118944)
06-26-2004 3:28 AM
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Reply to: Message 75 by simple
06-26-2004 1:36 AM
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Re: lazy, crazy speed of light
arkathon
Yet I cannot touch the cup o soup cosmic soup creator some prefer to believe in You bring this up over and over. Do you care to elaborate on what you mean by this and let us know where you came up with it?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 75 by simple, posted 06-26-2004 1:36 AM | | simple has not replied |
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 79 of 230 (118951)
06-26-2004 3:48 AM
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Reply to: Message 75 by simple
06-26-2004 1:36 AM
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Re: lazy, crazy speed of light
arkathon
Part of the reason they believe is because they see how fast our physical light moves, and extrapolate backwards as to how long ago it traveled at that speed, to the great distance it came. They come up with great age as a result. They call that evidence! Let me get this straight. Science measures the speed of light and finds it to be 300,000 Km/sec and by careful analysis of parallax and things like the period-luminosity relationship of Cepheid variable stars.Planetary nebulae, supergiant stars as well as supernovae also give us clues {within an acceptable level of uncertainty} to distances out beyond 300 million Light years. What exactly can you show us is wrong with these measurements?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 75 by simple, posted 06-26-2004 1:36 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 81 by simple, posted 06-26-2004 5:29 AM | | sidelined has replied |
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 85 of 230 (119012)
06-26-2004 11:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 81 by simple
06-26-2004 5:29 AM
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Re: lazy, crazy speed of light
arkathon
If we were to measure how long it would take an angel to get to the furthest star, we would see really, basically no time at all. And here is where you and your postulation of "spritual light" lose out. You will never be able to do the one thing that seperates the factual from the opinionated and that is measuerement of what you claim exists.So your statements about what the length of time it would entail to cross the universe are empty of meaning.Much sound and fury signifying nothing. Science backs up knowledge with experimentation that measures a real quantity and that is what allows us to examine the universe with a clarity that increases over time . It also allows us to probe the universe in ways that are not apparent to 'common sense",and see that nature's secrets are far more astounding than was first apparent.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by simple, posted 06-26-2004 5:29 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 89 by simple, posted 06-26-2004 3:33 PM | | sidelined has replied |
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 137 of 230 (120362)
06-30-2004 1:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 89 by simple
06-26-2004 3:33 PM
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Re: lazy, crazy speed of light
arkathon "Like the farmer who saw a giraffe for the first time,shook his head,and said,"there just a no such thing." The farmer can deny all he wants{just like you} even when presented with the evidence{a giraffe}but obviously the evidence presented by nature disagrees with him.Of course he is still entitled to his opinion,just not his own facts.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 89 by simple, posted 06-26-2004 3:33 PM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 141 by simple, posted 07-01-2004 2:41 AM | | sidelined has replied |
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 165 of 230 (121552)
07-03-2004 3:17 AM
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Reply to: Message 141 by simple
07-01-2004 2:41 AM
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Re: lazy, crazy speed of light
arkathon
Waiting for the evidence now. You have some type of good reason S could not have left us with P? LOL. Buddy, you have it bassackwards. You are the one making the claim{spiritual speed of light} and the onus [s]is on you[/i] to present the evidence. You make statement after statement with no measurement of any actual phenomena so it would seem the only place this idea of yours has merit is in your active imagination. I have a house in Banff made of invisible immaterial concrete blocks and timber and it hovers on the wings of eagle spirits. If this is my contention is it proper of me to ask you to disprove it? If so, then please feel free to do so.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 141 by simple, posted 07-01-2004 2:41 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 167 by simple, posted 07-04-2004 11:48 PM | | sidelined has replied |
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 169 of 230 (121977)
07-05-2004 12:22 AM
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Reply to: Message 167 by simple
07-04-2004 11:48 PM
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Re: in conclusion
arkathon
Doesn't matter if you take a known physical universe measurement like the speed of light,(which is fine) and then fantasize how far away a star is by assuming it was created billions of years ago as a result. Could you please explain what makes you think it is a fantasy?
I think I'll rest from this for a while, and ponder the implications of having something that evos can't really touch, that would explain how our creator was really true after all. Yes,it is very difficult to touch that which is only imagination and wishful thinking. Audiatur et altera pars.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 167 by simple, posted 07-04-2004 11:48 PM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 170 by simple, posted 07-05-2004 3:01 AM | | sidelined has replied |
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 173 of 230 (122331)
07-06-2004 2:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 170 by simple
07-05-2004 3:01 AM
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Re: in conclusion
arkathon
To take the speed of P, and use it to measure time of creation, I need clarification of this. Do you mean the speed of light is the only evidence pointing to the measure of the time of the Big Bang?
But unless someone can prove it could not be, and indeed God split the spiritual from the physical for some reason, then shortly after it was created, S could get to the same star in no time. Therein is the problem old man. You are asking us to prove it could not be when it is you making this claim for spiritual light. In the same way it is our responsibility to show how the claims we make are consistent and logically sound so to must you show what the means are for arriving at your conclusion that this event actually occured.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 170 by simple, posted 07-05-2004 3:01 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 177 by simple, posted 07-08-2004 12:12 AM | | sidelined has not replied |
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 213 of 230 (123529)
07-10-2004 1:58 AM
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Reply to: Message 210 by simple
07-10-2004 12:31 AM
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Re: doing the math
arkathon
OK, so let's say a supernova was, in distance, around 180,000 light years away. Let's say we started to see it in 1987. So, according to the split idea, what would we be seeing? Well, since we don't have an exact year for the split, we would need a ballpark number to work with. Let's say the split happened somewhere between 1 month after creation, to 2500 years ater (around time of flood, which is not what I think, but to allow a little wiggle room). There is a serious error in your thinking. If we take the devil's advocate route and assume your p/s split occured and the light from the supernova arrived here instantly at the moment of "creation" 3500-6000 years ago and then slowed to todays paltry 300,000 km/s, we would no longer see the star nor could we expect to for another 180,000-{3500-6000} years.Now we must explain the appearance of every star that lays at a distance greater than 3500-6000 light years since their light cannot be reaching us yet. Please explain this.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 210 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 12:31 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 214 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 2:41 AM | | sidelined has replied |
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 216 of 230 (123543)
07-10-2004 3:09 AM
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Reply to: Message 214 by simple
07-10-2004 2:41 AM
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Re: mysteriousons
arkathon From your opening post.
One possibility I have been considering is that there was a seperation somewhere around creation time, of the physical and spiritual universes. Before the seperation, the 'light' would have travelled without the limit of our physical universe limitations. The result would have been that it would have taken the spiritual light virtually no time hardly at all to get to the great distances that the stars are away! Only after our universe was seperated would our physical light take great time to get places. Perhaps I am misreading this but are you not saying that both physical and spiritual light travelled together at limitless speed to arrive here after which spiritual light left the physical realm and our ordinary physical light {the 300,000 Km/s kind} took over? If so then the light we see from a supernova 180,000 light years away left that supernova 180,000 years ago.This contradicts the hypothesis you put forth of the creation taking place 6000 years ago. So you are left with a universe whose present speed of light shows stars that are older than the time of creation you claim.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 214 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 2:41 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 217 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 3:49 AM | | sidelined has replied |
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: 08-30-2003
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Message 220 of 230 (123572)
07-10-2004 8:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 217 by simple
07-10-2004 3:49 AM
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Re: mysterions and 88
arkathon From post #88
What I thought of it as, was that, if the seperation did occur, the spirit world (world is so much easier to type than 'universe' so hopefully the word will do from now on)would have passed out of our perception and sight. All we were left with, would have been the physical world we know. OK, so one day, before this happened (if it did) we see a far star in the sky, and it's light gets to us right away. If it 'twinkles' or blinks, we see it pronto.
Next day, and we are seperated now. Looking up, I still see the star. It kinda looks a little different maybe, but there it is. Problem is, God has now put us under the constraint of the physical, which includes time. I guess maybe He didn't want the demo to go on forever, almost like shareware.
The only light that can exist in my new physical world is so slow now, it would take a billion years for it to get to the star, when only yesterday it got here right away.
The way I picture it, the former light, left in it's place this slow stuff in it's entire path, or trail. So it is still coming right from the star uninterupted, but now takes a long time to get here. No black outs. (unless it was right in the creation week this happened, and the cosmic light that existed before the sun was the spirit light, but that's too complicated for me, and I don't think so anyhow)
OK so the former light now replaced in place by the only light the P world can handle. It never started out at a slow speed from the star, but came to be as the former was seperated, and this took it's place.
Could this be? So again we have you stating that p and s travelled together initiallly instantaneously but then at the speed we now know.
OK, so one day, before this happened (if it did) we see a far star in the sky, and it's light gets to us right away. If it 'twinkles' or blinks, we see it pronto. Next day, and we are seperated now. Looking up, I still see the star. It kinda looks a little different maybe, but there it is. Problem is, God has now put us under the constraint of the physical, which includes time You would not be able to see light under the constraint of the physical because it is bound to the speed limit of 300,000 Km/s and will not be seen until it has had time to traverse the distance between us and the star.
The way I picture it, the former light, left in it's place this slow stuff in it's entire path, or trail. This is a contradiction since you are now saying it travelled at two different speeds the intantaneous light having travelled here in no time at all cannot also leave a trail of light moving at a slower speed than it since by your own admission it did not have the time to do so.Either way we are still left with a star that now shows an age measureably older than your creation model allows for.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 217 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 3:49 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 224 by simple, posted 07-10-2004 3:43 PM | | sidelined has not replied |
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