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Author Topic:   Absolute Morality...again.
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 197 of 300 (334302)
07-22-2006 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Hyroglyphx
07-22-2006 11:22 AM


Re: Cart Before the Horse
nemesis_juggernaut
purpledawn} writes:
Over the course of our discussion you have given at least 3 different definitions of absolute in relation to morality, but I don't feel that you understand that you have done that.
nemesis_juggernaut writes:
What? How so? Its a set of principles that are definite. Its morality that is irrespective of personal opinion. Its a Law established by a higher Power which governs us.
So what are the principles? Are these principles ironclad and incapable of adapting to complexity in human relations or are they set in stone and always applicable?
Edited by sidelined, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-22-2006 11:22 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 278 of 300 (336619)
07-30-2006 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Hyroglyphx
07-30-2006 11:10 AM


Re: Lets try this one more time
nemesis_juggernaut
Right. So if its so often that people innately understand a sense of morality, save the occasional sociopath who destroys his conscience, what explanations do we have to understand how we have it.
I would imagine it is hardwired into the brain by evolution. Since the way a society thrives is dependant upon behaviour it follows that behaviours that allow for order will be prevalent in a population.
As far morals being different from culture to culture and from time to time, I'd say that the only thing relative is what people constitutes murder, for example. Everyone is in agreement that murder is "wrong." What they differ in, is what constitutes murder and what constitutes jusifiable homicide. But that intrinsic Law is already established. No one needed to be taught that
But then we could just as easily say that the soiciopath considers murder in a societal sense as simply justifiable homicide. If murder can be reinterpreted as justifiable then just what does this intrinsic law mean? Is it even a law?
He speaks about being on a train where you get up to go to the bathroom. When you come back someone is sitting in your seat. You and everyone near you are in agreement that the man "stealing" your seat was "wrong." But what makes it wrong? What gives us the understanding that its wrong?
I absolutely disagree. The seat on the train is not yours in the sense of your property. The man could just as easily have been unaware that the seat was yours,perhaps having come from the sleeper car or having just got on at the station 5 minutes back. The "wrong" you claim in this context is dependant upon the circumstances and therefore is not an absolute law at all.
Wars are started on such misunderstandings of the nature of the "crime" when all the evidence is not considered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-30-2006 11:10 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-31-2006 10:51 AM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 287 of 300 (336902)
07-31-2006 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by Hyroglyphx
07-31-2006 10:51 AM


Re: Lets try this one more time
nemesis_juggernaut
If we see a child drowning in the rapids, we feel an impulse to want to help. Why? I ask why in light of another impulse, arguably a much stronger desire, which is self-preservation.
Because as the nature of the impulses evolve through the natural selection process all impulses that go towards the best chances for species survival {here on an individual basis} it follows that those animals that cannot overcome the self preservation instinct would lose the child and therefore one less chance for the passing on of this trait {inability to overcome self preservation}. Such animals would tend to extinction. Those that can overcome such tendency to self preservation would have their children continue the lineage.
They've assassinated their own conscience.
They have not assasinated their conscience so much as never had a choice in the nature of their conscience.
. I thought what I was arriving at was obvious, which is, I come back to my assigned seat and the man is sitting in it. I inform him that he's in my seat. Instead of apologizing for the inconvenience, he is simply indifferent to it. When I engage him in an argument, I am appealing to him to understand a sense of justice that I expect him to understand.
But you do not argue that it is an inate right, You argue that it is an agreed upon right since in your original point here.
You and everyone near you are in agreement that the man "stealing" your seat was "wrong."
Thus you reference not an inate standard but a social agreenment that aligns with what we have in the system of laws that humans implement by consensus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-31-2006 10:51 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

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