Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8942 total)
37 online now:
Newest Member: LaLa dawn
Post Volume: Total: 863,836 Year: 18,872/19,786 Month: 1,292/1,705 Week: 98/446 Day: 98/64 Hour: 4/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   are christian wives respected?
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 17 of 65 (32035)
02-12-2003 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Zephan
02-12-2003 7:40 AM


quote:
You're comical. Not you personally, but your reasoning. I fear you will never escape.

Hey, if my reasoning is so laughable, then why didn't you demolish it with your apparently much superior reasoning in the first place instead of slinging juvenile insults?

quote:
Anyway, I would show you but it would only incite you to anger and therefore blind you even more. After all, you might object to being "led" to the light.

Oh, yes, you could enlighten me, but you aren't going to.

Something about your first and only response makes me doubt that that you have much ability to enlighen anyone.

quote:
I will say, however, that my previous "Butch" comment was out of line and for that I apologize. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

Apology accepted, although why would it be so terrifying for someone to be a "butch", as you say? Why do you fear them?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Zephan, posted 02-12-2003 7:40 AM Zephan has not yet responded

    
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 65 (32043)
02-12-2003 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by nator
02-11-2003 9:45 PM


Schraf, first I'd like to thank you for this discussion as it has been very beneficial to me. This is also the most civil discussion I've had with you since I've started posting on this board, I am enjoying it.

In response to your post, leadership entails more than just making decisions for a couple. I think the type of leadership that God expects men to provide in their household is to lead by example. I am to show that I trust God in all things without wavering. I am to lead my life in a Christ like manner and be a spiritual leader to my family.

Men should lead by example in this way.

A leader is also someone who is strong in the face of difficulty, and adversity. This is another way that men should lead in their families. If the husband is calm, trusting in God, asking the Lord to give him strength in difficult times, it is easier for his family to also trust God.

I think in this discussion we limited the definition of leadership too much, leadership is so much more than just making decisions.

I don't want to sugar coat the decision aspect of leadership, the husband is the leader and a good leader is willing to take advice before making a decision. However it is still that leaders responsibility to make the decision, and to be accountable for what they have decided.

I know that it has been said before, but these principles only work in a Christian marriage, because God is the ultimate leader.

I hope this helps to clear some of your confusion about Christian principles in marriage.

------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by nator, posted 02-11-2003 9:45 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Karl, posted 02-12-2003 11:46 AM funkmasterfreaky has not yet responded
 Message 20 by compmage, posted 02-12-2003 2:48 PM funkmasterfreaky has not yet responded
 Message 21 by nator, posted 02-13-2003 8:22 AM funkmasterfreaky has not yet responded

  
Karl
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 65 (32045)
02-12-2003 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by funkmasterfreaky
02-12-2003 11:01 AM


Funk - and when the wife is much better at all those things than the husband, what then?

Is it not natural that she would automatically take the lead in that manner?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 02-12-2003 11:01 AM funkmasterfreaky has not yet responded

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 20 of 65 (32048)
02-12-2003 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by funkmasterfreaky
02-12-2003 11:01 AM


funkmasterfreaky writes;

quote:


In response to your post, leadership entails more than just making decisions for a couple. I think the type of leadership that God expects men to provide in their household is to lead by example. I am to show that I trust God in all things without wavering. I am to lead my life in a Christ like manner and be a spiritual leader to my family.


And why can't the wife do these things?

quote:


Men should lead by example in this way.


Why just men?

quote:


A leader is also someone who is strong in the face of difficulty, and adversity. This is another way that men should lead in their families. If the husband is calm, trusting in God, asking the Lord to give him strength in difficult times, it is easier for his family to also trust God.


Again, why just the man and not the woman?

quote:


I don't want to sugar coat the decision aspect of leadership, the husband is the leader and a good leader is willing to take advice before making a decision. However it is still that leaders responsibility to make the decision, and to be accountable for what they have decided.


Why must it be the husband that is the leader?

None of this explains why the husband must lead and the wife should support. Wouldn't it be better if the two make decide together, or each leads in the areas they are stronger in?

------------------
Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-eight million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue-green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 02-12-2003 11:01 AM funkmasterfreaky has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 21 of 65 (32108)
02-13-2003 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by funkmasterfreaky
02-12-2003 11:01 AM


I have found the discussion a good one too, Freaky, and I thank you for sticking with it and I can tell you are doing your best to help me understand.

I also have the same questions about your response that others have had; why is it automatically assumed that the husband, in all cases, must perform this role of leading?

I understand your wanting to expand the definition of "leadership" in your version of a Christian marriage to be that of "leading by example". I don't have an objection to this, per se. However, you also said;

quote:
I don't want to sugar coat the decision aspect of leadership, the husband is the leader and a good leader is willing to take advice before making a decision. However it is still that leaders responsibility to make the decision, and to be accountable for what they have decided.

You still haven't explained to me how you can submit and lead at the same time.

You still haven't explained to me how one can have a leader and not, therefore, even in a small way, tell the followers what to do.

You still haven't told me why you, as the man and the leader, get the option of taking advice or not, but your wife, being the follower, does not have that option and must always follow your direction. IOW, she has no choice.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 02-12-2003 11:01 AM funkmasterfreaky has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by nator, posted 02-13-2003 8:30 AM nator has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 22 of 65 (32110)
02-13-2003 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by nator
02-13-2003 8:22 AM


OK, this is for those who believe that the man should be the leader of their Christian marriage;

Can you forbid your wife from doing something?

Can she forbid you from doing something?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by nator, posted 02-13-2003 8:22 AM nator has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Satcomm, posted 02-13-2003 11:23 AM nator has responded
 Message 24 by jdean33442, posted 02-14-2003 10:40 AM nator has not yet responded

    
Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 65 (32127)
02-13-2003 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by nator
02-13-2003 8:30 AM


quote:

Can you forbid your wife from doing something?

Yes, if there is conviction in our hearts not to do it, and there is evidence in God's word to not do it.

quote:

Can she forbid you from doing something?

Yes, see above.

------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by nator, posted 02-13-2003 8:30 AM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by nator, posted 02-14-2003 2:42 PM Satcomm has responded

  
jdean33442
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 65 (32230)
02-14-2003 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by nator
02-13-2003 8:30 AM


quote:
OK, this is for those who believe that the man should be the leader of their Christian marriage;

The male should be leader of any marriage pagan, christian or otherwise.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by nator, posted 02-13-2003 8:30 AM nator has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Karl, posted 02-14-2003 11:00 AM jdean33442 has not yet responded

  
Karl
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 65 (32235)
02-14-2003 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by jdean33442
02-14-2003 10:40 AM


Why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jdean33442, posted 02-14-2003 10:40 AM jdean33442 has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 26 of 65 (32269)
02-14-2003 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Satcomm
02-13-2003 11:23 AM


OK, but I thought that the wife was not supposed to lead the husband. If the husband is forbidden from doing something by the wife, is she not leading him at that time?

Oh, and I am not talking about things that are specifically mentioned in, say, the 10 commandments, or in your marriage vows.

I am talking about things like forbidding the wife to wear a certain lenght of skirt, or maybe forbidding her from reading certain books, or something like that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Satcomm, posted 02-13-2003 11:23 AM Satcomm has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Satcomm, posted 02-14-2003 6:51 PM nator has responded

    
Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 65 (32297)
02-14-2003 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by nator
02-14-2003 2:42 PM


quote:

OK, but I thought that the wife was not supposed to lead the husband. If the husband is forbidden from doing something by the wife, is she not leading him at that time?

If my wife uses a portion of the Word to point out something I may be doing wrong (or if she uses common sense for that matter), then I'm going to listen to her and converse about making it right. She's not leading, I'm just listening to reason in that case. I recognize that I'm a fallible human being like everyone else and am not always going to be right. I encourage her to bring something up if something is bothering her, and we will discuss it.

quote:

Oh, and I am not talking about things that are specifically mentioned in, say, the 10 commandments, or in your marriage vows.

Hmmm, I was. Ok, so you just mean little things like where to keep the toothpaste? Those types of things are agreed upon. But when it means critical choices for the family, I tend to lead as Christ would lead his church. It's simply my role as a strong husband.

quote:

I am talking about things like forbidding the wife to wear a certain lenght of skirt, or maybe forbidding her from reading certain books, or something like that.

That's just nonsense. Of course there is common sense. I wouldn't want my wife going out into public in a skimpy lingerie dress, just like she wouldn't want me running around in speedo shorts with nothing else on.

As for other stuff, we both discuss what would be unbeneficial or even harmful to our marriage and our family and agree to eliminate them or even the appearance of them.

Where I tend to lead is when I want to keep our relationship on track biblically. I'll examine a situation and say "ok, this is what the bible says, and this is what works and doesn't work." And then we'll talk it over. And she typically respects my final decision. You must understand though that she believes in the faith as I do, so we're both on the same wavelength mentally and spiritually. There is agreement, not suppression.

------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by nator, posted 02-14-2003 2:42 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by nator, posted 02-16-2003 11:01 PM Satcomm has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 28 of 65 (32395)
02-16-2003 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Satcomm
02-14-2003 6:51 PM


A: OK, but I thought that the wife was not supposed to lead the husband. If the husband is forbidden from doing something by the wife, is she not leading him at that time?

quote:
If my wife uses a portion of the Word to point out something I may be doing wrong (or if she uses common sense for that matter), then I'm going to listen to her and converse about making it right. She's not leading, I'm just listening to reason in that case.

It seems like she is doing the exact same thing as you do when you are leading her, except that you don't want to think of it as leadership, but as "taking advice".

This seems to mean that if she had a different interpretation of the Bible than you, or if you think she is wrong, then you could pretty much declare her wrong or mistaken and that would be the end of it.

I am not saying this is what you have done or even would do, but, in your arrangement, you technically could, correct?

quote:
I recognize that I'm a fallible human being like everyone else and am not always going to be right. I encourage her to bring something up if something is bothering her, and we will discuss it.

But what happens when you think you are right and she thinks you aren't? Do you always get to decide who is right?

A: Oh, and I am not talking about things that are specifically mentioned in, say, the 10 commandments, or in your marriage vows.

quote:
Hmmm, I was. Ok, so you just mean little things like where to keep the toothpaste? Those types of things are agreed upon. But when it means critical choices for the family, I tend to lead as Christ would lead his church. It's simply my role as a strong husband.

A: I am talking about things like forbidding the wife to wear a certain lenght of skirt, or maybe forbidding her from reading certain books, or something like that.

quote:
That's just nonsense. Of course there is common sense. I wouldn't want my wife going out into public in a skimpy lingerie dress, just like she wouldn't want me running around in speedo shorts with nothing else on.

No, I mean bigger things that where to keep the toothpaste.

I mean things like could you forbid your wife from reading a book that you thought she shouldn't, or could you forbid her from associating with her friend because you thought that friend was bad for her? Could you forbid your wife from working if you wanted to?

quote:
As for other stuff, we both discuss what would be unbeneficial or even harmful to our marriage and our family and agree to eliminate them or even the appearance of them.

Collaborative, equal descision making I am in support of, naturally.

quote:
Where I tend to lead is when I want to keep our relationship on track biblically. I'll examine a situation and say "ok, this is what the bible says, and this is what works and doesn't work." And then we'll talk it over. And she typically respects my final decision. You must understand though that she believes in the faith as I do, so we're both on the same wavelength mentally and spiritually. There is agreement, not suppression.

So, if I am interpreting you correctly, you seem to be saying that you feel that you are better at interpreting the Bible than your wife.

One could also interpret your statements as implying that your wife (all Christian wives?) are, by the unfortunate event of being born female, are not capable of or worthy of interpreting what God wants you both to do. It might be understood that wives would lead the family into ruin if they were to lead the family, bad things could happen if the family was run democratically, without a single male leader.

I am very interested in what happens when, atypically, your wife doesn't respect your final descision.

Here's what I think I understand about your views on your marriage:
1. You have a leadership role in your marriage, and this is a real leadership role, not some honorary title or just your seat at the dinner table.
2. In most situations, you and your wife exchange ideas and opinions, and come to decisions together.
3. In some subset of issues/decisions/etc., you (the man) have some power and authority that your wife does not have.

What is this power? What exactly is the power that the man has that the woman does not? That "you lead" doesn't tell me much.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Satcomm, posted 02-14-2003 6:51 PM Satcomm has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jdean33442, posted 02-17-2003 1:46 AM nator has not yet responded
 Message 30 by Satcomm, posted 02-17-2003 12:22 PM nator has responded

    
jdean33442
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 65 (32404)
02-17-2003 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by nator
02-16-2003 11:01 PM


I'm positive you won't actually reply to me but perhaps you'll be sneaky and reply to some one else while addressing this.

quote:
But what happens when you think you are right and she thinks you aren't? Do you always get to decide who is right?

What happens when you and your husband disagree? It is not possible to always be in agreement with your spouse. When this happens some one has to LEAD, right? I fail to comprehend how you can say you have a leaderless marriage.

quote:
I am talking about things like forbidding the wife to wear a certain lenght of skirt, or maybe forbidding her from reading certain books, or something like that.

Both partners believe in the same standards. This example is not relevant in such a relationship. Now if a devout Christian man married an atheist woman I can see the above example happening.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by nator, posted 02-16-2003 11:01 PM nator has not yet responded

  
Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 65 (32441)
02-17-2003 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by nator
02-16-2003 11:01 PM


quote:

It seems like she is doing the exact same thing as you do when you are leading her, except that you don't want to think of it as leadership, but as "taking advice".

That's because it is, and there is a difference between leadership and advice. Even the president has advisors.

quote:

This seems to mean that if she had a different interpretation of the Bible than you, or if you think she is wrong, then you could pretty much declare her wrong or mistaken and that would be the end of it.

That is simply not the case. We don't have different interpretations of the bible.

quote:

I am not saying this is what you have done or even would do, but, in your arrangement, you technically could, correct?

Ok. Yeah, like I said, that doesn't happen.

quote:

But what happens when you think you are right and she thinks you aren't? Do you always get to decide who is right?

No, I don't. I leave that up to God. He reveals to us what is right in our situations through His Word and the spirit.

quote:

A: Oh, and I am not talking about things that are specifically mentioned in, say, the 10 commandments, or in your marriage vows.

Satcomm: Hmmm, I was. Ok, so you just mean little things like where to keep the toothpaste? Those types of things are agreed upon. But when it means critical choices for the family, I tend to lead as Christ would lead his church. It's simply my role as a strong husband.

A: I am talking about things like forbidding the wife to wear a certain lenght of skirt, or maybe forbidding her from reading certain books, or something like that.


That's typically not the case, nor is it an issue, in our marriage. She is reserved in her attire as she chooses not to wear skimpy outfits and the like. This is not from my influence, but this is simply who she is and what she believes.

As for books and stuff, her and I feel the same about certain things that we should not embrace. This is not from suppression, but from her conscience decision to follow her faith in the matter.

quote:

No, I mean bigger things that where to keep the toothpaste.

I mean things like could you forbid your wife from reading a book that you thought she shouldn't, or could you forbid her from associating with her friend because you thought that friend was bad for her? Could you forbid your wife from working if you wanted to?


That is not the case. We don't disagree on those things.

quote:

So, if I am interpreting you correctly, you seem to be saying that you feel that you are better at interpreting the Bible than your wife.

No, it is not an issue of superiority. My wife and I both believe in the same thing and are on the same page. We both interpret the bible the same and respect everything it says. It says that a man is to lead his family, therefore I accept that role to support a healthy family. And it works.

quote:

One could also interpret your statements as implying that your wife (all Christian wives?) are, by the unfortunate event of being born female, are not capable of or worthy of interpreting what God wants you both to do. It might be understood that wives would lead the family into ruin if they were to lead the family, bad things could happen if the family was run democratically, without a single male leader.

You're not going to like my answer on this one. Your statement is correct with the exception of this: "are not capable of or worthy of interpreting what God wants you both to do." And it has been proven historically in both the bible and the church. Women are capable of interpreting the plans God has for them, however are more prone to other temptations. This is not inferiority, but simply a difference between men and women. It does not mean a woman is inferior to a man. We recognize that, in our case, it's not a woman's role to lead the family, nor is it a woman's role to lead a church.

I'm sure you dislike this concept and you are free to do so. Just because you dislike our views does not mean that they are wrong.

quote:

I am very interested in what happens when, atypically, your wife doesn't respect your final descision.

That simply does not happen. I could understand that happening if I married an atheist or someone with totally different ideals than myself, however that is not the case in our marriage.

quote:

What is this power? What exactly is the power that the man has that the woman does not? That "you lead" doesn't tell me much.

You're misinterpreting the role of a man. It's not "power" over the woman. It's not "superiority" over the woman. It's a recognization of the established differences between male and female. My wife and I are on the same page in that understanding and choose to embrace it because the bible shows that it's supposed to be that way, and it works for us. When I lead my family, I'm not suppressing it. Modern popular culture seems to portray it that way.

------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by nator, posted 02-16-2003 11:01 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by nator, posted 02-17-2003 2:22 PM Satcomm has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 31 of 65 (32457)
02-17-2003 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Satcomm
02-17-2003 12:22 PM


quote:
That's because it is, and there is a difference between leadership and advice. Even the president has advisors.

The president may choose to take advice or not, though, where the advisors have to abide by what the president decides.

Would you agree then that the president has power over his advisors in their relationship?

quote:
That is simply not the case. We don't have different interpretations of the bible.

Then why the need for your male leadership in Biblical matters if the interpretations are identical?

A: I am not saying this is what you have done or even would do, but, in your arrangement, you technically could, correct?

quote:
Ok. Yeah, like I said, that doesn't happen.

So...hypothetically, if you and your wife disagreed upon what the message of a particular passage in the Bible directed you both to do, you would be the final arbiter, correct?

It might not have happened yet, but I am talking about the potential disagreement and what you would do. What are your available options and what are your wife's available options in this situation?

A: But what happens when you think you are right and she thinks you aren't? Do you always get to decide who is right?

quote:
No, I don't. I leave that up to God. He reveals to us what is right in our situations through His Word and the spirit.

OK, now I'm confused.

I thought you said that you are the one, not your wife, who's job it is to keep your marriage on a Biblical track, so it's you who gets out the Bible to look for guidence, correct? If it's you who is deciding what to do, based upon the Bible, then it seems like you are the one having the Word revealed to you.

quote:
That's typically not the case, nor is it an issue, in our marriage. She is reserved in her attire as she chooses not to wear skimpy outfits and the like. This is not from my influence, but this is simply who she is and what she believes.

As for books and stuff, her and I feel the same about certain things that we should not embrace. This is not from suppression, but from her conscience decision to follow her faith in the matter.


What my original question was, could you forbid your wife to do something, not "do you currently have reason to" forbid her to do something. Do you have the power to do this in your marriage, and does she have the power to forbid you to forbid you from doing something?

quote:
No, it is not an issue of superiority. My wife and I both believe in the same thing and are on the same page. We both interpret the bible the same and respect everything it says. It says that a man is to lead his family, therefore I accept that role to support a healthy family. And it works.

But I still don't know what that actually means. If there is a leader, doesn't that mean there has to be a follower? Don't leaders, by definition, have some power to tell the followers what to do?

(Man, I almost wish we were back in the days where Fundamentalist Christian men could come right out and say, "Damn straight, I'm the king of my castle! Nothing happens in this house that I don't approve first, and my say is the final say! I know how to keep my woman under control!" It would be more straightforward to deal with this compared to all of this vague; "I'm the leader but I also submit," and "My wife and I discuss everything and agree on everything and she has just as much ability to interpret the Word, but I still need to be the leader for reasons I can't explain." business.)

quote:
You're not going to like my answer on this one. Your statement is correct with the exception of this: "are not capable of or worthy of interpreting what God wants you both to do." And it has been proven historically in both the bible and the church. Women are capable of interpreting the plans God has for them, however are more prone to other temptations.

Such as...?

Better be careful with those testable claims...

quote:
This is not inferiority, but simply a difference between men and women. It does not mean a woman is inferior to a man. We recognize that, in our case, it's not a woman's role to lead the family, nor is it a woman's role to lead a church.

I can't wait to hear what the justification and evidence is for this claim!

quote:
I'm sure you dislike this concept and you are free to do so. Just because you dislike our views does not mean that they are wrong.

Just because you like your views does not mean they are right.

Lots of people like discrimination on the basis of race as well as gender. How are they different, in your eyes?

A: I am very interested in what happens when, atypically, your wife doesn't respect your final descision

quote:
That simply does not happen. I could understand that happening if I married an atheist or someone with totally different ideals than myself, however that is not the case in our marriage.

Um, don't you think she might not be disagreeing because you, as the leader, could just shoot her down anyway? It seems pretty clear that she and you have been trained that she should be submissive and not disagree if she wants to be a good Christian woman. You know; she shouldn't be "uppity" and start getting ideas of her own. I mean that last sentence only half-jokingly.

quote:
You're misinterpreting the role of a man. It's not "power" over the woman. It's not "superiority" over the woman. It's a recognization of the established differences between male and female.

If there is a leader, there is a follower. This is, by definition, a power imbalance. It doesn't matter how many times you say it isn't. It is, unless you would like to explain to me how it isn't logical to conclude this.

A leader has more power than a follower, by definition.

Oh, and what are these "established differences" between male and female which makes all of them followers in their families?

quote:
My wife and I are on the same page in that understanding and choose to embrace it because the bible shows that it's supposed to be that way, and it works for us. When I lead my family, I'm not suppressing it. Modern popular culture seems to portray it that way.

Logic would tend to portray it that way, too.

Leadership entails telling people what they can or cannot do, correct?

This means that for you to always be a leader in your marriage, you can always have the option of telling your wife what she can or cannot do, correct?

If she never disagrees with you, is that because she knows she can't win even if she does disagree, so there is no point in doing so? Has she been taught that being submissive to your leadership is her role? Being taught to not want equality in a marriage would qualify as oppression in my opinion, just as teaching black people that they don't want to vote is oppression.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Satcomm, posted 02-17-2003 12:22 PM Satcomm has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by RedVento, posted 02-19-2003 3:33 PM nator has responded

    
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019