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Author Topic:   Jews Rejected God's Offer
lfen
Member (Idle past 2935 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 22 of 219 (162338)
11-22-2004 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Thugpreacha
11-22-2004 10:34 AM


Re: A matter of opinion and belief
His field was law. A court of law is rather different from a peer review by experts in one's field. Greenleaf's arguments should be evaluated on their merits of course. He wrote in the 1800 so didn't have recent evidence.I would say that we would need historians of the period to give accounts from Jewish as well as Christian and pagan sources.

The church created a dogma for various purposes having to do with struggles between different groups. At the core of religion may be experiences of something beyond the ego, but the dreary dogmas of free will, Satan,heaven, hell and who's righteous and who isn't is secular politics played out by theocratic priests striving for control.

That Christianity was adopted by Constantine is historically well documented. The further back from that event the more difficult it becomes to document what was going on in the various sects of Judaism, Christianity being a sect of Judaism that was adopted by some gentiles. By the time we get to trying to find a historical Jesus not much is there. The mythical Jesus of the church has been well established culturally for over a thousand years.

Religious theories are much easier to create than scientific ones and basically don't have requirements of proof. This can be seen in modern times with the Moonies, the flying saucer stuff, etc. People find it easy to create religions and believe in them. And by the way the flying saucer people did die for their belief that they would be taken on board the comet, so early Christian martyrs are not unique in that.

The Jews and Christians had a power struggle over interpretation, practise, etc. Each side claiming they represented God. But I think the divinity doesn't need representation. The laws of gravity work beautifully without need of advocacy. I wish people would stop attributing their religions to the source of the universe. It's tacky to assume the source of gravity and quantum mechanics etc. would create such a botched job as Bibles, Korans, and religion in general.

lfen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-22-2004 10:34 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
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lfen
Member (Idle past 2935 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 24 of 219 (162345)
11-22-2004 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Thugpreacha
11-22-2004 12:11 PM


Re: A matter of opinion and belief
So what field are you speaking of, Ifen? There is much documentation from educated professionals regarding the accuracy and meaning of scripture. I keep hearing refutations, yet I see no documented evidence by these "experts" whom you mention.

I'll quote my post that you were responding to.

I would say that we would need historians of the period to give accounts from Jewish as well as Christian and pagan sources.

The field I'm speaking of is history.

lfen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-22-2004 12:11 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-22-2004 4:38 PM lfen has not yet responded

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 2935 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 55 of 219 (162640)
11-23-2004 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by arachnophilia
11-22-2004 7:26 AM


Re: A matter of opinion and belief
jesus is yehoshua, or joshua

I'm curious. In Hewbrew their names were spelled the same? If so do you know why they are not translated the same in English language Bibles then?

lfen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by arachnophilia, posted 11-22-2004 7:26 AM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by arachnophilia, posted 11-23-2004 3:57 PM lfen has responded

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 2935 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 70 of 219 (162803)
11-23-2004 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by arachnophilia
11-23-2004 3:57 PM


Re: the name of jesus
Very interesting. Thanks,

lfen


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 Message 61 by arachnophilia, posted 11-23-2004 3:57 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 2935 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 114 of 219 (164047)
11-30-2004 2:53 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by arachnophilia
11-29-2004 8:16 PM


Who Wrote the Bible--I liked this book
I plan to reread or at least review the book soon. It is a fascinating study and well worth reading. I checked it out of the local library. It was since damaged but when I asked about it they ordered a new copy.

lfen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by arachnophilia, posted 11-29-2004 8:16 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

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lfen
Member (Idle past 2935 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 190 of 219 (165264)
12-04-2004 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Amlodhi
12-04-2004 9:42 PM


what "offer" are we talking about?

I think it's the offer the Church dreamed up to allow them to steal the lands and possessions of Jews, persecute them, drive them out, etc. Kind of like the WMD in Iraq, it was an official excuse to do what seemed profitable at the time. The pious believers support this especially by not asking questions because that would not be believing so endangering their souls and thus the leadership, sacred or profane, do what they want and get maximum cooperation from the faithful.

lfen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Amlodhi, posted 12-04-2004 9:42 PM Amlodhi has not yet responded

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 2935 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 199 of 219 (165815)
12-07-2004 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Amlodhi
12-06-2004 5:49 PM


Re: What Did the Apostles Know
Amlodhi,

It does seem that first Christians and that includes Paul thought Jesus would return very soon within the lifetimes of some them.

It appears to me that later Christians i.e. the Catholic church had to develope a religion that would fill in the void that the failure of Christ to return had created for them. At the core of this is the denial of failure and a living for a future time that seems about to happen, should happen any day now, only year after year for 2 milenia it hasn't. Talk about dopamine fueled anticipation!

lfen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Amlodhi, posted 12-06-2004 5:49 PM Amlodhi has not yet responded

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 2935 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 203 of 219 (166571)
12-09-2004 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Thugpreacha
12-09-2004 12:28 PM


Re: What are you smoking?
Here in Denver, Dr. Craig Blomberg at Denver Seminary has numerous scholastic sources that support the Apostle as author.

Phat,

What are his sources? Scholastic sounds to me like medieval theology i.e. Thomas Aquinas and philosophers of his time.

lfen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-09-2004 12:28 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
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lfen
Member (Idle past 2935 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 212 of 219 (167166)
12-11-2004 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by ramoss
12-11-2004 10:18 AM


Re: Another look
Ramoss,

Have you read any apologetic attempts at explaining that 10 year gap away? I'm wondering what the general approaches are? I'd guess to fuss with the datings.

lfen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by ramoss, posted 12-11-2004 10:18 AM ramoss has responded

Replies to this message:
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lfen
Member (Idle past 2935 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 213 of 219 (167168)
12-11-2004 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by ramoss
12-11-2004 10:18 AM


Re: Another look
duplicate post.

lfen

This message has been edited by lfen, 12-11-2004 12:28 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by ramoss, posted 12-11-2004 10:18 AM ramoss has not yet responded

  
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