The Inerrancy of the Bible

Hi Tom:People keep pointing out errors in the text and you keep coming up with excuses. Maybe you are looking at it from a different perspective. Is it your contention that it is the message of the KJV that is inerrant, not necessarily the typed text? Of course, this also makes the whole idea meaningless.

purpledawn, I've no problem that Lucifer the devil is the serpent that the babylonians thought they were worshipping when as some of your are saying when they saw the planet Venus.It says how far Lucifer fell from heaven, its not just refering to the leader of Babylon. kjv Rev 12:13 says the Dragon saw he was cast to the earth, saw his time was short, and woe to the inhabitants of the earth, though the inhabitants of Heaven are now Rejoicing cause he who accused us to our God has been cast down to the earth.kjv Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.kjv Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.kjv Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.kjv Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.I've heard that the Muslims bible is called the sword of Satan. They (Muslim infidels) sure appear to be a cockatrice(hissing viper's), of the fiery flying serpent (the Great Dragon, the Devil, and Satan) kjv Revelation 12:9kjv Isa 14:29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.kjv Isa 14:32 What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.

Paulk, Then were in agreement that the bible is not in conflict with what your saying. That we had a tax event in Herod the Great rule, and a possible census thereafter, and possibly another taxation event. The bible agrees that Herods son ruled after he died.Quirinius is not mentioned in the bible, so whats your point.

No, there is no evidence of any Roman tax event in the reign of Herod the Great. Judaea wasn't even in the Roman tax system - as a client state it paid tribute (i.e. Herod paid an agreed sum to Rome and it was up to him how that money was raised). And despite your claim to the contrary Quirinius is explicitly mentioned in Luke 2:2 (some translations use the Greek form "Cyrenius" - but it is the same person).

FliesOnly, My point is that the kjv is not a cut version of God's Word's. The bible says to not cut nor add to the Word. There is so much prophecy within the bible that makes it a supernatural body of Words. Its not my job to preserve the Word thru all generations, but Gods. It appears there maybe a few scribal errors but I'm not going to change that which God has given, because it might be related to prophecy, or something that happened that we know not what. As far as inerrancy, its called prophecy. In some cases you have more than one prophecy. God is already there, he knows the future. Its called prophecy.kjv 2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
kjv 2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
kjv 2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

PaulK, I take the bible to be the more authority of what happened given the Gospel of Matthew was written by the Lords Apostles who were eye witnesses of the times. Matthew says that Herod was the King, the Gospel of Luke agree's. Your errors are likely due to the conflict of the starting dates of the calendar, and I would agree that the Roman Calendar errored 4 years.It does say the taxing was made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria not that Cyrenius controlled how Herod collected the taxes in Judah.Well I guess its up to you to document what Roman records your refering too, and that the census was not something done separately from Herod the greats taxation event. Its entirely possible for Cyrenius to of been the governor for more than 10 years. You surely don't expect me to take your word that what you say is more accurate than the Word.

So........you are agreeing that the KJV is not inerrant.(I think my previous post may have said "Inherent"...sorry (ABE: nope, I just looked))This message has been edited by FliesOnly, 01-14-2005 12:38 AMThis message has been edited by FliesOnly, 01-14-2005 12:38 AM

You actually think that Matthew was an eye-witness to the time of Jesus BIRTH !!!??? Where in the Bible is there the slightest suggestion that that is true ? In fact we don't even know if the anonymous author of "Matthew" was alive when Jesus died.And I've already pointed out that there is no way that the problem can be due to a calendar error. Archelaus came after Herod the Great and the census came after Archelaus. Your calendar error doesn't affect the sequence of events or the relative dates at all.I've looked into this and there is nothing placing Quirinius in or around Judaea prior to 6AD. He is certainly not Governor of Syria at the time of Herod's death and it is not possible that he was Governor for 10 years. Nor is there any record of any census during the reign of Herod the Great.

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I've no problem that Lucifer the devil is the serpent that the babylonians thought they were worshipping when as some of your are saying when they saw the planet Venus.

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Unfortunately that's not what I said.This is an "Accuracy and Inerrancy" thread, please address the information I presented.Without quoting verses show me evidence that my information is wrong.The verses you provided have nothing to do with the taunt in Isaiah 14.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

Flies only, That depends on how you define Inerrant. No matter how you cut it, its a supernatural book. The KJV however is simply the uncut version of Gods Supernatural Word. God said he would preserve his Word for all generations. I believe the KJV is Gods Words (Hebrew and Greek) Clothed in English for all generations.People however want a bible version that has been cut or words added to make it mean what it does not mean, so they take out reference to particular lifestyles(NIV), its called mans versions of Gods Words.This was what Jehoiakim did (he burned the scroll of Jereimiah) which caused his name to be taken out of Joesph's geneologies in the gospel of Matthew. You forget that God had the Book of Jeremiah rewritten. If the scribal numerical errors were prophetic God would of corrected these numerical errors for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of Prophesy.kjv revelation 19:10, kjv 1 john 5:10

PaulK, I don't want to accuse you of lying, but all I hear you say you've proved something without showing any evidence, other than I proved it. I've at least quoted Matthew and Luke.

Does "without errors" work for you? If not, you should probably take that complaint up with the English language. Insofar as it is a book about the supernatural. Of course, so is "Needful Things"...This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 01-14-2005 13:51 AM

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"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river, infidels shiver In the stench of belief
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late
I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw ringing in my ears"
-Beck

I don't want to see you do that, either. What I'd like to see is for you to continue the discussion by continuing to address the points raised by PaulK. Summarizing:

1. PaulK said that the the Bible nowhere states that Matthew was an eyewitness to the birth of Jesus. After reading your Message 81 carefully, it isn't obvious that you were saying that Matthew was an eyewitness, so perhaps you could clarify.
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2. PaulK said that the Bible contains an apparent contradiction concerning the date of birth of Jesus:
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   1. Matthew tells us that Jesus was born during the time of King Herod, who died in 4 BC.
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   2. Luke tells us that Jesus was born during the census while Quirinius was governor of Syria. While there are no records of any such census, Quirinius was governor of Syria years after the death of King Herod.
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   This contradiction is not due to a calendar confusion.
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   You postulated that possibly Quirinius was governor of Syria for a long time, possibly as far back as when Herod was still alive, but history records that Quirinius was an army officer at that time.

--Percy

Hi Tom: Well, I define it as without errors.It appears that you define it as without errors, except where it is mistaken.It’s kinda like saying: I’m never wrong! I thought I was wrong oncebut I was mistaken.

I've given references to Luke, Matthew and Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews. You've given absolutely nothing that actually addresses the point. Indeed you have claimed that a calendar error somehow explains it more than once with no explanation of how that could possibly be the case.Here's some more facts for you. The death of Herod occurred whne Quintilius Varus was governor of Syria (Antiquities 17 10.1) Varus predecessor was Saturninus (Antiquities 17 5.2)17 5.2
"Now Quintilius Varus was at this time at Jerusalem, being sent to succeed Saturninus as president of Syria..."17 10.1
"BUT before these things could be brought to a settlement, Malthace, Archelaus's mother, fell into a distemper, and died of it; and letters came from Varus, the president of Syria, which informed Caesar of the revolt of the Jews; for after Archlaus was sailed, the whole nation was in a tumult..." (This revolt was the immediate aftermath of Herod's death)18.1.1
"NOW Cyrenius, a Roman senator, and one who had gone through other magistracies, and had passed through them till he had been consul, and one who, on other accounts, was of great dignity, came at this time into Syria, with a few others, being sent by Caesar to he a judge of that nation, and to take an account of their substance. Coponius also, a man of the equestrian order, was sent together with him, to have the supreme power over the Jews"Now where's your evidence ?