The "Circle of the Earth"

HI Mike, Every believer will agree yes, because to disagree would be to admit that the Bible is in error.However, there is a way to harmonise a circle and a flat earth. The Hebrew cosmology suggests that the sky is a metal dome over a flat earth, the 'circle' would be a reference to the dome complete with little windows that God opens for the rain and snow to fall out of. Brian.

Can God make a rock that is too heavy for Him to move?

And I am equally sure that many won't see how this proves there is something God cannot do!

Well, if God CAN make a rock that is too heavy for Him to lift then He won't be able to lift that rock, hence there is something that God cannot do. If He CAN lift the rock then He cannot create a rock that is too heavy for Him to lift.The claim that God can do anything is just silly.Of course we don't have to use this argument because the Bible tells us that God cannot defeat people who have iron chariots.

If He can devise a way to lift it He has failed to create a rock too heavy for Him to lift!! Oh to have the mind of a fundy.If God HAD to devise something to lift the rock then it means that HE cannot lift it, HE has to employ something to do what He cannot. Come on mate, this is a well known paradox, dont fry your brain over it.Judges 1:19The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots.

Why did God have to create a way to lift the rock?

Well, the KJV, the Bible that Jesus used, makes it clear that it is God who could not drive out the chariots.And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.He drove out the inhabitants of the mountain, but couldn't drive out the inhabitants of the valley, thus God is useless.I think this is an excellent verse that demonstrates that Yahweh was a fictional character invented by Isralite philosophers. it seems obvious that when the Israelites were so overpowered by the iron chariots that they could not imagine anyone defeating them, even God.God has served His purpose, it is an outdated and worthless concept.

Thus there is something that God cannot do.

Of course it is, and is also a sub context of the Book of Exodus, The Book of Joshua, and many other books. The context is that when Israel (the nation) went into battle God was either with them or was not. Logically to the Israelites, if they won a battle then God was with them, if they lost then naturally God was not with them, and they would have to find a reason why.For example, it was clear that God was with Joshua and his armies when they obliterated Jericho and every living thing in the city, including women and innocent little children and babies. As Joshua 6:2 informs us: And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour.Israelites didn’t take credit for victories for themselves, it was God that was given the credit.Even more supportive is Joshua 6:16: And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, Shout; for the
LORD hath given you the city. Israel did not win her battles, Yahweh the warrior won the battles, this was the Israelite perception of warfare.And when they didn’t win a battle then God wasn’t with them, I mean He who can do anything simply cannot be defeated, and we know the consequences when a defeat happens, someone is going to pay.Unfortunately for the innocent sons and daughters of a certain Achan, the very next battle did not go the Israelites way.When they had defeated Jericho, an army of Israelites marched on to Ai, where they had their butts soundly kicked. So why did this happen if God was with them? Well He couldn’t have been with them because they lost so something must have displeased God. Lo and behold we have the culprit, wee Achan had stolen some of the treasure that was earmarked for Yahweh:Joshua 7:1 But the Israelites acted unfaithfully in regard to the devoted things; Achan son of Carmi, the son of Zimri, the son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, took some of them. So the LORD's anger burned against Israel.Thus we have an excuse for Israel failing to take the city of Ai, Achan had angered God. So God, in His usual barbaric style, orders the execution of not only Achan, but his sons and daughters too (as well as everything he had owned).Joshua 7:23-25 Then Joshua, together with all Israel, took Achan son of Zerah, the silver, the robe, the gold wedge, his sons and daughters, his cattle, donkeys and sheep, his tent and all that he had, to the Valley of Achor. Joshua said, "Why have you brought this trouble on us? The LORD will bring trouble on you today."
Then all Israel stoned him, and after they had stoned the rest, they burned them. How do we know that this pleased God? Well He then went with the Israelites to Ai and they won the battle.God even joined in some battles For example, in one battle He killed more Amorites with hail than the Israelites could kill with their swords!Joshua 10:11 As the Amorites retreated down the road from Beth-horon, the LORD destroyed them with a terrible hailstorm from heaven that continued until they reached Azekah. The hail killed more of the enemy than the Israelites killed with the sword.Joshua makes it clear that God is the champion, Israel doesn’t win without God’s help.Joshua 3:10 And Joshua said, Hereby ye shall know that the living God is among you, and that he will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Hivites, and the Perizzites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Jebusites. God was with Judah when he failed to defeat the iron chariots, the text makes this clear. If God was NOT with Judah then we would have an explanation why, as we do in the Book of Judges, things go wrong for Israel. None of it?You mean that Jesus didn’t literally rise from the dead three days after He died?David did not literally rule over a united monarchy?God did not literally kill the firstborn of every Egyptian family?Jesus did not literally bring Lazarus back to life?Do I take nothing in the Bible literally? Well this depends on which version of the scriptures you read. Yes we have no original texts, we do not know who wrote any of the Old Testament books, we do not know who wrote the Gospels, but we do have different versions of some of the same books, and we can see many differences.But the idea that God fought for Israel is not confined to one or two verses, it is a continuous thread throughout the Hebrew Bible, so it is difficult to believe that all of the references are late additions. I don’t have any limitations to my thinking, I am extremely open
minded, but not that open minded that my brain has fallen out. I notice you didn’t list philosophy, which explains why you cannot see a problem with the rock/lifting paradox.But, what you believe has no relevance to the accuracy or interpretation of the Hebrew Bible. Big Bang, evolution has nothing to do with ancient near eastern history and the contents of the Bible. You may scrape science into it as a tool of archaeology, but apart from that your beliefs are immaterial. Why does science HAVE to understand God? God is outside the realms of scientific enquiry, who actually cares about God? God is a useless concept, utterly devoid of any purpose. It would serve no good purpose to waste vast amounts of human time and resources looking for God, if we found Him what difference would it make?If science ”proved’ that God existed and that God was Allah as revealed in the Qur’an, then Christians would still not accept that. They would come up with some fantasy that would keep Yahweh alive, just as they have always done. They would say that the scientists have been misled by Satan, and that Satan has fooled the scientists into thinking that Allah was real and all other gods are now untrue.People who believe in fairytale characters will always find some excuse to keep that character alive.God only exists in the mind of the believer, other than that God is a completely worthless entity.

Yes, I regularly get upset with fundies. my life is at an end. Oh right, so the Bible is worthless? We just ignore it?Are you saying that there is no reliable history at all in the Bible, we cannot use it to support external texts? Why?What does Jesus offer you that Osiris doesn't? LOL So we cannot trust the Bible, yet it is the primary source for Jesus the guy that you choose to believe in!Let me get this right. You say the Bible is sh*t, but you believe in a guy from the Bible. Have you any idea how moronic that sounds? Of course it is, I even pointed that out to you. It is a very well known paradox that took you days to figure out. So what is moving the rock?A hyster can move a rock by itself? LOL a metaphor.For the love of Jesus it isn't a metaphor, you need to listen a bit more to your English teacher.Anyway, the device is not an animate entity, it cannot lift anything. I told you not to fry your brain because it is a well known paradox, but you choose to make a tit of yourself. Why? But you are barely literate, why should I listen to you? And evidence has no place in your particular world? It isn't? Jesus, you are illiterate, I'm so sorry, I shouldn't make fun of the afflicted. Well you have no idea what a metaphor is, and you don't know how to spell the plural of 'fundy', you choose to make it a 'possessive' rather than a plural, and you really do not know what a paradox is.No wonder you choose to believe in Jesus, you are exactly what is required to accept the Jesus myth.Are you in high school? So why do you choose to believe in a character from this book that cannot be interpreted literally?I noticed you blanked the questions on what we cannot take literally from my earlier post.I'll narrow it down for you. Can we take Jesus' resurrection literally?

Okay, since God obviously knows the shape of the world He created, and the author of Isaiah is mistaken, then there is only one logical conclusion isn't there?

Because only a fundy can be so dense. This really has nothing at all to do with the question I asked you. Well, if you choose to believe in Jesus, then you do not believe in Osiris. Why, when you keep pointing out that the Bible cannot be trusted?Why can the spiritual message be trusted if the Bible is full of errors and worthless? I am not insulting your intelligence at all. Thus God is not moving the rock! Look, it is a paradox, it is meant to be self contradictory, and TBH I really didn’t think anyone would even attempt to reply to that. It is indeed a paradox. You seem to be unaware that the statement mentioned God doing the moving, if He can move it then He cannot create a rock too heavy for Him to lift. YOU are the one adding a premise of your own that was not part of the original statement. I am literate, well done. I don’t see where I insulted anyone. Yes, but it makes things more plausible. Evidence? That isn’t a metaphor either! Oh I see, you NEED God. I was right, you are a fundy. Didn’t do too well at English though did you? It ”too’ is a metaphor. Except that it isn’t.The thing is, you do not even see the paradox that YOU have created for yourself.The Bible cannot be trusted, but I believe XYZ that is in the Bible!Can you not even see the problem? You missed lots of prudent questions. Sorry, but unlike yourself and other fundies, I have self respect. Only if you find out what a metaphor is, and you take extra English language lessons.BTW, whoever wrote Isaiah thought the world was a flat disc, as did many other ancient near eastern peoples.

All textual criticism is theoretical.In fact, it is difficult to think of an area of research into the Bible (be it literary, historical, or scientific) that isn't theoretical.Of course you reject the Bible as being worthless, we cannot trust it at all, yet you happily accept information contained in it as true!You are essentially saying that the source of your faith is not trustworthy, and then you go on to trust that very source. A very, very strange situation don't you think?Edited by Brian, : cannae spell

The thing is, the ONLY people who state absolutes are the fundy Christians. You will never get anyone else who knows what they are talking about claiming that their theory is 'true'.But to be a theory, to ascend to that status, requires a falsifiable solution. For example, if someone stated that many ancient people from the same area as the Hebrews also believed that the world was a flat disc and didn't provide any supporting evidence, then their hypothesis would not be a theory.Part of the problem is that some people do not know what a theory is, they do not know that a theory is the best possible explanation from the evidence we have.Also, a historian will never claim that his or her theory is true. Unless they are a fundy of course.