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Author | Topic: Prophecy for Buzsaw | |||||||||||||||||||||||
sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Lysimachus
The book is based on the prophecies of Daniel Riiiight! The same Daniel who stunned Nebuchadnezzar, a king of such sceptic bent that he employed the longest running line of charlatan [AKA astrologers] in his kingdom. I can see how hard it would be to convince that man of prophecy.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
buzsaw
Yes but that is hardly miraculous since the fact of the matter is that any dream interpretation would suffice if done right. First off the dream was forgotten by the king as referenced by this statement.
The king answered and said to the Chaldeans, The thing is gone from me The astrologers are unable to bring forth any help because their tactics require that the dream be given them before they proceed with interpretation,which could easily be made up on the spot.Daniel,however, goes them one better and actually has the balls to tell the King what it was he dreamt of.After all what did he have to lose? Then in the passages that follow.
But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these; Dan 2:29 As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came [into thy mind] upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass. Dan 2:30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for [any] wisdom that I have more than any living, but for [their] sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart. Dan 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness [was] excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof [was] terrible. Dan 2:32 This image's head [was] of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, Dan 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. Dan 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Dan 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. Dan 2:36 This [is] the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. Dan 2:37 Thou, O king, [art] a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. Dan 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou [art] this head of gold. Dan 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all [things]: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. Dan 2:42 And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream [is] certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. Here Daniel plays the big trump card.A king is in a position that is precarious at best.If you can ease his burdens by soothing his fears of what will become of his kingdom over time then it follows that he will be grateful.Now the dream sequence Daniel laid out was vague at best{just like astrology}so that Daniel could put whatever spin he wished to it.From there it was just a matter of telling the King that he was favoured by a higher power and therefore he need not worry.He asured him that his kingdom was favored over all and that it would endure.It is no different than the astrology that one can pick up in any newspaper in the world.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Buzsaw
I did read the entire account before I posted the reply.It is extremely easy since David could make up a dream.{Nebuchadnezzar did not remember the dream.} Then it was simple to place vague references to dreamlike qualities and adorn it with things the King wants to hear.The king kept charlatans around anyway so he was obviously fantasy-prone.As I said being in a position of power necessitates great pressures on a man and just like the rest of us we want to hear soothing tales especially about the things we find near and dear to our hearts.No miracle here ,just a better level of salesmanship. This message has been edited by sidelined, 09-15-2004 05:41 AM
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
buzsaw
We've all had dreams which we couldn't remember, but if womeone could come up with the dream, recall would verify whether it was the dream. The king was no stupnagel, Sidelined, as you're insinuating. I am insinuating no such thing because I do not no what a stupnagel is.Could you define that for me? Merriam-webster has no such word so I would appreciate this.And yes I did mean Daniel not David.Memories are not accurate even in waking times so please do not try to use that line of reasoning.Daniel simply did the his best to play off of what he did know. First the King did not recall the dream and ,two,the King openly said his spirit was troublred by the dream.Off those two pieces of information Daniel simply played to the Kings needs by constructing dream like imagery consistent with a dream that would trouble a person especially one that is fantasy prone.Just because a man is King does not make him less gullible,to the contrary such position likely serves to heighten such qualities. Also imagine what it would require of the King to admit if he said that Daniel was lying. 2. Neb simply claimed he couldn't remember the dream so as to know for sure that the one interpreting was not faking a farce interpretation to his dream. So He was bearing false witness is that what you are claiming here?
This same Daniel was to later interpret other stuff for the king, the last being that the king would go crazy for some years, not something the king was likely wanting to hear. Yes however after being that long under the influence of Daniels' guidance it would be difficult for him to have to admit that it was all a farce since this would be,at the least, political suicide.It would be similar to people who invest in a scheme like free energy paying more and more money into it even after it has been shown to be bullshit because to not do so would be embarrassing and admittance of a mistake.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
buzsaw
What possible difference would belief have on my pointing out a plausible non-miraculous scenario that also explains the evidence presented in the passages? I could be wrong but I doubt it. Please explain to me how such is not implied by the passages.Again I ask if,as you say,Nebuchadnezzar said that he did not remember the dream when he actually did then is this not bearing false witness? Is this not a direct violation of a commandment of god? You must be upset that I choose to look at the situation with a rational mind rather than not question it or swallow the idea of a miracle actually occuring.If you wish to see it in that light I have no problem,however since we are viewed by many others on the sidelines in this forum I felt it was my right to express another point of view that others may decide for themselves in the best way possible,by really thinking about it.
There's no point in arguing about it. As you wish I will not continue to put you on the spot.Have a great day.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
buzsaw
It could be because I am not starting from an assumption of miracles being a real thing. It is not that so hard to imagine in the struggle of politics and under death threats that such a scenario could play itself out.Just imagine for the sake of arguement that you read the bible from the perspective of no god.no miracles, just humans playing human games in the struggle for existence and we might mention power in some cases. The scenarios can be readily explained in other ways that are not necessarily miraculous.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
buzsaw
LOL!! As you wish friend we will say no more.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Lysimachus
least. The fact that they are increasing only demonstrates that the risk for people to be killed in an earthquake is ALSO increasing. I think the USGS would disagree with you.Check out this data on earthquakes. Check the website to get a better view of the numbers as it won't properly transfer here. http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eqlists/eqstats.html
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