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Author Topic:   How does evolution explain the gaps?
Percy
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Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 2 of 59 (31788)
02-09-2003 2:03 PM


Philip writes:
I don't expect you to really debate any of these, just let you know gaps of scientific credulity exist as a problem for a mega-ToE model as based on your micro-ToE model (as you defined a couple days back).
Okay, it's up to you. I thought focusing on a single "gap" might make clear the fallacy under which you're operating. Since you don't want to choose one, I will. How about the one about the theoretical constants of our universe being just right for life? Change any one of them by the scantest amount and life couldn't exist.
How is this an argument against evolution? It isn't even biology, it's physics. And it applies equally to all sciences. Change any of these constants and physics and chemistry would no longer work, and our universe as we know couldn't even exist.
So why don't we focus on something closer to the Creation/Evolution discussion? It really isn't possible to argue against your general assertion of "the gaps invalidate the mega-ToE model". Pick a gap related to evolution so we can understand what you're getting at.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Philip, posted 02-10-2003 1:35 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 6 of 59 (31850)
02-10-2003 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Philip
02-10-2003 1:35 AM


Philip writes:
Oh all right, I'll focus on just one, since you make it seem that perhaps by ONE all the others stand or fall...
Actually I've been getting the feeling that we have different conceptions of what constitutes a "gap", and I was hoping for clarification by way of example.
Philip writes:
Why might you and everyone have to have biology in the equation of stellar evolution?
I don't, so it sounds like we agree. I was just offering one item from the list you provided in Message 22 in the Exactly 'HOW' intelligent must a Designer be ? thread.
Philip writes:
On the biological end for example, it would be unscientific and unethical for me to tell my patient(s) he/she has a cavus (arched) foot due to an evolutionary advantage of running with higher arches in primate forefathers. Now a mega-ToE of this sort contains many stinky scientific gaps.
As I suspected, we're talking about different types of gaps. The type of gap you mention here is without significance relative to the validity of evolutionary theory. It's a scientific/historical issue whose answer is a function of availability of evidence, of which there is very little.
Questioning evolutionary theory because we're unable to piece together the evolutionary history of the arch of the foot would be like questioning the laws of physics because we can't figure out the origin of a newly discovered comet. Both of these questions are unanswerable due to lack of information about very specific situations, and not to any theoretical lack.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Philip, posted 02-10-2003 1:35 AM Philip has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 17 of 59 (33059)
02-24-2003 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Jet
02-24-2003 11:02 AM


Re: Here's a better idea!
I think you first have to explain how your challenge is meaningful. You could as easily have written this challenge:
Pick an atom, any atom, and using the principles of chemistry start with that atom's earliest combinations with other atoms into molecules and trace its recombinations through time until you arrive at its present state. If you cannot do so then chemistry is unscientific.
Or this one:
Pick a stone, any stone in your backyard, and using the principles of geology trace that stone's changes and movements through time from its initial formation to its presence in your backyard. If you cannot do so then geology is unscientific.
Your challenge is just as invalid as these.
We don't know everything and never will. Where the evidence is gone there is nothing that can be done to bring it back. Principles and theories are derived from existing evidence. To some extent those principles and theories can be used to reconstruct histories for situations where evidence is inadequate or absent.
That there are some things we can never know because the evidence no longer exists is just something we have to accept, but the strength of a theory is a function of its evidentiary support, and not of how much other evidence might have been destroyed or made in some way unavailable.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Jet, posted 02-24-2003 11:02 AM Jet has not replied

  
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