Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,901 Year: 4,158/9,624 Month: 1,029/974 Week: 356/286 Day: 12/65 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evolution and Probability
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 99 of 104 (65764)
11-11-2003 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Dinker
11-08-2003 12:30 PM


Re: Hmmm... I'd have to disagree...
Dinker writes:
quote:
In general the gay christian community have got round all the biblical texts by just disowning it.
(*chuckle!*)
Yeah, right.
It can't possibly be because they understand the Bible better than you. No, it has to be because they are deliberately ignoring it.
quote:
The bible is clear on what is right here
No, it isn't.
There is nothing in the Bible that talks about homosexuality as we understand it.
[referring to Corinth at the time of Paul]
quote:
Gay was social norm.
Incorrect.
How could "gay be the social norm" when there was no concept of homosexuality at the time?
Note, I am not saying that people didn't have sex with people of the same sex at the time. I'm saying they didn't consider themselves to be gay simply because they did. By your argument, everybody in prison is "gay" since pretty much all the sex that is taking place in prison is between people of the same sex. I think it's safe to say that if we were to ask them what they think they are, they would immediately denounce such a characterisation.
You're oversimplifying, Dinker. Just because a person has sex with someone of the same sex does not make him gay.
quote:
As was paedophilia.
Again, you oversimplify.
Question: How old were the youths, usually?
Question: What kind of sex took place?
Question: Was there any ritualisation of the process of acquiring the youth?
It isn't like you had men walking up to 10-year-olds and having anal intercourse. You need to do more research.
quote:
You would be expected to have a few wives/concubines, a gay lover and fun down the local brothel.
Incorrect. You have the direction backwards. That is, a man who had a wife was not completely condemned for having some sexual activity outside of the marriage, including having sex with another man. That doesn't mean one was expected to do so. In fact, quite the opposite was the case. While a man who had sex outside of marriage wasn't condemned, he wasn't exactly celebrated, either. A man who couldn't control himself and would neglect his wife for these other outlets was condemned. You could have a little, but overdoing it was taboo.
quote:
By embracing homosexuality or any sexuality when forced to choose between it and a relationship with God shows a rejection of God.
That's why gay Christians are in no trouble. They aren't choosing between their sexuality and god. They are gay. God made them that way. Since there is nothing in the Bible that condemns homosexuality as we understand it, there is no conflict between being gay and being Christian.
quote:
Paul puts homosexuality on a plane with being greedy.
Paul doesn't talk about homosexuality, though.
quote:
Christians hate sins not sinners
Impossible.
I don't hate you...I simply hate the fact that you're blond. Couldn't you just shave it or dye it or something? I don't hate you...I simply hate the fact that you're male. Couldn't you at least have the decency to dress like a woman?
When a person has an immutable trait, then it is impossible to "hate the sin" without hating the sinner, too. What you're saying is that you don't hate circles...just the fact that they're round.
quote:
we believe we are all sinners.
Yes, but it seems that some sins are worth more hyperventilation than others.
quote:
That was just in case you believe I'm a pig-headed homophobe... You may still do... But my friends who are gay would probably disagree... at least a little...
(*chuckle*)
Right. "You know, you're going to hell." Doesn't seem to be a very good basis for a friendship.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Dinker, posted 11-08-2003 12:30 PM Dinker has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 104 of 104 (66199)
11-13-2003 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Dinker
11-12-2003 12:56 PM


Re: May I start with a sorry...
Um, Dinker? I don't recall saying anywhere that I was gay or Christian. What on earth makes you think that I am? Just because I disagree with your interpretation of what the Bible has to say about homosexuality doesn't mean that I am gay or Christian.
quote:
I've not met a gay christian who has given me reasoning that would indicate that homosexual (As I understand it... which apparently is very little) activity is not a sin or that it is glorifying to God.
To be honest, I doubt you've ever talked to any about it.
quote:
So I would be delighted if you would in christian brotherly style show me the errors of my ways
(*sigh*)
I've got a better idea: You tell me why you think the Bible says anything about homosexuality as we understand it and we'll go from there.
quote:
I'm going to be a little bold here and say you are not what you do.
So what you're saying is that all you need is a good gay lover? A six-pack will get you on your back?
quote:
People are born with inclinations to do all sorts of things that are wrong ... Psychopaths ... Paedophiles ... bestiality
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Oh, that's just precious, Dinker! Because two people in a loving relationship is just so much like killing people and abuse.
I'm reminded of the idiots out there that say that if we allow people of the same sex to get married, the next thing you know we'll be letting people get married to a car. Because, you know, a car is just like a person.
quote:
What would you think of me if I walked round saying "Hi, my names Dinker and I'm a heterosexual".
But you do. All the time. You may not realize that you're doing it, but you do. Are you married? What do you think that ring on your finger means? Have a picture of your loved one on your desk? When a coworker asks you what you did last weekend, do you ever find yourself saying something like, "My wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend and I went to..."?
quote:
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." Corinthians 6:9-10.
You asked for me to let you know when you have erred. Well, here is one.
"Homosexual offenders"? Why does your Bible contain the word "homosexual" in it? There was no word in Greek that would translate as "homosexual." Don't tell me...let me guess...you're using the NIV, aren't you? You do realize that the NIV is one of the worst translations of the Bible around for precisely this reason. It starts with the dogma (homosexuality is bad) and then translates the text to fit the dogma, even when it doesn't.
The word your translation has claimed to be "homosexual offenders" is the Greek word "arsenokoitai." This is a word that Paul simply made up and it appears exactly twice in the Bible. It is a combination of the words for "male" and for "prostitute."
It literally does not mean what you think it means.
quote:
At what point are you homosexual?
Why don't we turn the question around? At what point are you whatever sexuality you are?
quote:
This is why I say homosexuality is a sin
It may be.
But nothing in the Bible indicates that it is.
quote:
But in some ways I would rather it wouldn't be. Just so I didn't have to do such things as this.
Are you trying to tell us something, Dinker?
After all, studies show that the people who are most vehemently opposed to homosexuality tend to be closeted homosexuals, themselves.
quote:
Can you show me that I am wrong so that I need not pointlessly rebuke another christian over this issue?
There are already many threads about this.
Better still, why don't you tell me why you think the Bible has something to say about homosexuality as we understand it.
quote:
quote:
Right. "You know, you're going to hell." Doesn't seem to be a very good basis for a friendship.
That is not the basis of our relationship.
But that's the underlying current, though. You even say so, yourself:
I'm am deeply saddened that they do not know the joy I have in Christ and that ultimately them will be seperated from the love of God and God himself.
So do tell us how these "friends" of yours take to knowing that you think they're going to hell?
quote:
I'll be praying for both of us over this!
Don't bother. I don't need your assistance. I am certain that god is well aware of what is going on.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Dinker, posted 11-12-2003 12:56 PM Dinker has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024