Yet more paranoid assertions.Let's parse this statement. "Ron filmed him at his desk"Has no meaning. That is not evidence. It is just another appeal to authority. Big deal. If it looked like an 18th Dynasty wheel, that still is not evidence. We know that the 18th Dynasty used chariots, even though there is no claim that it is even a chariot wheel. In addition, during the 18th Dynasty, there were numerous campaigns throughout the area in question. There is nothing suprising about finding an 18th Dynasty wheel. But there is also NO evidence connecting it to any one of the various campaigns in that area. Again, you have absolutely no understanding of the period and politic. If you did, you would know that Anwar Sadat had suceeded Nasser as the President of Egypt in 1970. One of his major goals was to improve the relations with Israel and repair the damage done during the 6 days war. From the Jewish Virtual LibraryThis was a period when Egypt was trying very hard to improve relations with Israel and a finding such as the Exodus would have been a diplomatic coup for Sadat, one that he would have jumped at.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

We do have photos where you can see the center of the wheel better. I provided this one a while back. This, nor any of the others that are from the top are computerized in any way: Moller has these pics in his book too. The coral piece covers very little...so little that you don't even need to remove it to know what it looks like. The wheel is still in its place, and its location has been marked by W.A.R. They plan to go back as soon as they are able to raise the funds and get cooperation from the Saudi government. Hopefully, the shifting sands have not permanently covered so much to the extent where it would be impossible to excavate.About this vacation resort:Note that Nuweiba beach is huge. The main resorts lie on the northern part of Nuweiba. The chariot wheels are found across the southern part of the bridge, and you also must go out far enough to see them. I might also add that when Ron and his team did the diving, they went out into deep waters. One day the chariot parts could be easily identified. Another day they would come back and they were not there. These shifting sands out in the deeper parts make it really difficult.

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~Lysimachus

So you'd agree that as the moment you have an object that looks like a chariot wheel but it's an assumption untill you can go back and examine it in more detail?

quote:

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Big deal. If it looked like an 18th Dynasty wheel, that still is not evidence.

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It is evidence. Plenty of evidence for those who accept it as evidence, and no evidence for those who refuse to accept it as evidence. It is as simple as that. Evolutionists for example use their digging up of bones and fossil layers to support their theories of Evolution and say it is "evidence"--while to the contrary, I do not accept it as evidence.We believe that these chariot wheels in "CONJUNCTION" with the overall grand pattern we have presented here poses significant evidence.

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~Lysimachus

well do you have any that you have "dug" up which have not been stolen or vanished into the night?

Hi Lysimachus,Do you know if the film Ron took of the antiquites guy is still available at all?Cheers,Brian.

LOL,Another strange thing about this wheel, why did Ron not take tons of photos of it between dragging it out of the sea and the meeting with the Egytian antiquities guy. All we are getting are these poor quality pics taken underwater, yet Ron had the wheel in his possession and didnt take a single picture of it.We can add another reason to why amatuers are inferior to professional archaeologists, because if Ron had even took one seminar on archaeology he would know that one of the first things archaeologists do is to photograph AND draw any recovered artefact, 'in situ' preferably.Dang, if Ron had only took some pictures of the wheel AFTER he brought it up.Brian.

LysLet's parse this statement. "It is evidence."No, it is not. I gave the reasons in the earlier post, but I'll summarize them again for your benefit.There were many campaigns during the 18th. Dynasty in that general area. There is no evidence linking the wheel to any particular event.Let me expand further.There is no clear evidence that the Exodus even happened.Second, there is no clear evidence that can date the Exodus to the 18th Dynasty period, and there is a large and growing body of evidence that seems to show that the Exodus, if it did even happen, did not happen during the period from 1500BCE to 1400BCE."Plenty of evidence for those who accept it as evidence"So you are saying that those who wish to believe it can do so. No one would argue that. If someone has already decided on the conclusion, they can manufacture support.

But that does not make it evidence

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Can we do a summary of the claimed evidence - purely what it is and where it is? Chariot wheel (1) - bottom of sea

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Chariot wheel (2) - Lostwho can add to that?

Jar, I could care less about anything you say anymore. Your ideas to me are BOGUS! I have no respect for anymore of your posts. You're a hot tempered man that needs happiness in his life. If only you would see how happy you could be by accepting Jesus as your saviour.This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 08-09-2004 01:14 PM

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~Lysimachus

Charles,

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Can we do a summary of the claimed evidence - purely what it is and where it is?
Chariot wheel (1) - bottom of sea

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Chariot wheel (2) - Lost

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who can add to that?

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So? What do you think cameras are for? So what if they are lost. Things get lost because it is more difficult for amatuer archaeologists to keep things together. However, if they don't go out and do it, nobody will! Someone has to do it, whether they have the money or not. If they lose a few things in the process, that does not negate the overall picture of wheel sitings. Photos, Video footage, and testimonies testify to the validity of these finds.It's as simple as that.

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~Lysimachus

If only you would see how happy you could be by accepting Jesus as your saviour. translation: who needs logic or understanding? just blindly follow the bible and step on anyone who doesn't. It's a hell of a lot easier than thinking for yourself

A photo proves that you have: a photo of something A video proves that you have: a video of something Testimonies prove that: someone had made a claimDid you have any education in science at school?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-09-2004 01:20 PM

Jar,Here is your opportunity to raise your credibility:

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Big deal. If it looked like an 18th Dynasty wheel, that still is not evidence. We know that the 18th Dynasty used chariots, even though there is no claim that it is even a chariot wheel. In addition, during the 18th Dynasty, there were numerous campaigns throughout the area in question. There is nothing suprising about finding an 18th Dynasty wheel. But there is also NO evidence connecting it to any one of the various campaigns in that area.

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List to me every single campaign that ever took place in this area around Nuweiba beach. I want documented sources of every campaign, by which civilizations, and over what.

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~Lysimachus

that will fabricate "evidence" and generally bear false witness to bolster an already weak faith.Not a single one of you probably has any experience in the scientific method in any of the sciences. You are just a bunch of amateur hacks pissing around not knowing what you are doing.It is plainly evident you do not know how to present or examine evidence and because this nonsense agrees with your preconceived viewpoint it is accepted by default. Whereas to anybody who doesn't really give a crap one way or the other it looks like a shell game from the get go.Chariots on the Red Sea floor - CRAP!!!!