"The Exodus Revealed" Video II

great - let's see what you have so far.

Interesting - I ask a question and you call it a "half-baked conjecture". Could you just try to stop throwing unnecessary insults ? Or do you do it because it's the only way you can carry some pretence that you know what you are talking about.Anyway the correct reference is Exodus 32 (Not Genesis 34 as you say) and you need to read the preceding verses to see the context:

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2 Aaron said to them, "Tear off the gold rings which are in the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring them to me."
3 Then all the people tore off the gold rings which were in their ears and brought them to Aaron.
4 He took this from their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool and made it into a molten calf; and they said, "This is your god, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt."

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So the graving tool was used on gold earrings.In order to understand the verses you need to read them in context. You didn't.Drop the arrogant pose. It's no substitute for actually knowing what you are talking about.

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Interesting - I ask a question and you call it a "half-baked conjecture". Could you just try to stop throwing unnecessary insults ? Or do you do it because it's the only way you can carry some pretence that you know what you are talking about.

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Oh please. You weren't asking any open questions, you were already coming to conclusions.

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Anyway the correct reference is Exodus 32 (Not Genesis 34 as you say) and you need to read the preceding verses to see the context:

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Oh, excuse the typo. But I'm sure in your mind that's already sufficient reason to think you've "proven me wrong". lol...give me a break.

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So the graving tool was used on gold earrings.

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In order to understand the verses you need to read them in context. You didn't.

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Drop the arrogant pose. It's no substitute for actually knowing what you are talking about.

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You also conveniently forget to address the fact that it says "gods" plural, and actually omit the "s" (You're presumably using NIV). If there is only one golden calf, with NOTHING ELSE, WHY SAY "GODS"?My theory on the graving part was to reconcile this fact.This message has been edited by Hydarnes, 08-12-2004 11:52 AM

so have you got any of the masterpiece for us to see yet?

If you bother to read my post I clearly did ask a question - instead of offering "half-baked conjectures" as you claimed.And the Bible I used was the NASB.But the reference to plural "gods" doesn't change the fact that the context clearly indicates that the graving tool is applied to the gold earrings and not to the altar as you speculated.I asked for a Biblical reference to the petroglyphs and all you have offered is "half-baked conjectures" based on taking a verse out of context and misrepresenting the Bible.

Not to be nitpicky, but the word translated at gods in Exodus 32:4 is exactly the same word translated as God in Genesis 1:1

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Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

Thanks for pointing that out. Now I check I see that it is "Elohim", also translated as "God" in Exodus 32:11.

First of all, I said "half-cocked contentions", not "half-baked conjectures" as you allege.As for your pretense that you were asking an open question, it is unmistakably belied by the fact that you proceeded to say: "If you can't do better than that sort of tenuous link then have the decency to admit that it is not significant evidence instead of taking an arrogant and insulting tone in the hopes that nobody will notice.So don’t try to vainly convince us that you’re really open to learn about this subject. You already have your prejudices and they’ve been showing up in all forms all over the past and present threads on this topic.

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But the reference to plural "gods" doesn't change the fact that the context clearly indicates that the graving tool is applied to the gold earrings and not to the altar as you speculated.

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Again, it was a reconciliation between the two facts. Admittedly, it was partially based on eisegesis.

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I asked for a Biblical reference to the petroglyphs and all you have offered is "half-baked conjectures" based on taking a verse out of context and misrepresenting the Bible.

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Wrong, I showed you clearly: "THESE be thy gods..."If there was only one golden calf, why the plural?This message has been edited by Hydarnes, 08-12-2004 12:28 PMThis message has been edited by Hydarnes, 08-12-2004 12:28 PM

You mean, "to be nitpicky".It doesn't say "It be thy gods", it says "THESE be thy gods". Again, we can deduce from the context.And the NIV translation: "These are your gods, O Israel..."I also have the Interlinear Hebrew, Greek and English and it translates from the original Hebrew: "your gods", "these".This message has been edited by Hydarnes, 08-12-2004 12:26 PM

So the problem is that you don't understand the word "if".I admit that I'm so biased that I don't automatically accept anythign you say. I even dare to disagree with things I believe to be wrong. How terribly biased I am !Now the fact is that Exodus 32 rules out your speculation that the graving in 32:4 refers to carving on the altar. You made your speculation in ignorance of what the Bible actually said. Now if you had been honest enough to admit that you were speculating based on nothing more than a single verse taken out of context there would be no problem. But instead you arrogantly blast me as if you actually had an answer. And you didn't. You literally did not know what you were talking about.

My dear friend Jar,Thank you for trying to disprove the bulvine creatures. However, we'll see if your analysis really stands to the test.First of all, the images you posted are clearly "the biased" ones. Why do I say this? simply for the fact that you are leaving out a whole bunch of pictures that distinctly show clear similarities between these engraved bulls and the Egyptian Apis bull inscriptions.I might also remind you that the Saudi Archaeologist that investigated this area stated CLEARLY that "these are DISTINCTLY Egyptian and these engraving exist no other place in Saudi Arabia"--yes, that is just what they said. And guess what jar? They know more about their country than YOU! So who should I trust? You who is looking at pictures? or the Saudi Archaeologists who clearly said this?We have clear images of individual holding up these bulls:

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First, there are also drawings of people, hunting, antelope like creatures and phallic symbols, something similar to dogs or cats, a very definite Ibex like critter and other markings. Note the variety of distinctive horns on the drawings and that none of them show a classic bovine horn.

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Hunting antelope my footsie. We are talking about a MIXED culture here! These are HEBREWS who made the Inscriptions who have EGYPTIAN INFLUENCE! The people were in a frenzy...other people were probably having fun adding to these engravings. Whether they are hunting or not bears no merit...did not the Israelites have to hunt in these areas to stay alive?Moller has about a total of 15 pictures of Egyptian bulls, and this bull matches SEVERAL of them: Everything matches up Jar...not just the bulls. This is Mt. Sinai, where the Israelites encamped. No other mountain fits the description...but here at Jebel Al Lawz, everything that exists was preserved by God.I suppose you're going to go on the rest of your life disbeleiving, no matter how much we do to show you that you are simply wrong. You're fighting a losing battle.

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~Lysimachus

what's that in the first picture? Is it a dinosaur?Don't bulls have horns?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-12-2004 12:42 PM

PaulK,I can't believe how much you are going out of your way to nitpick and poke at the Bible...You don't need a specefic verse to your liking about these engraving. For you to think that the Bible was supposed to record every cotton-pickin' detail about things like this is simply unreasonable.It's as simple as this:The Israelites made a golden calf. Would it not be reasonable to think that the people around this alter would have made inscriptions in relation to the golden calf?

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~Lysimachus

It's the large horns depicted on some of the Egyptian bulls I see right here in Moller's book...it looks very similar. Remember, there were a lot of people dancing around that alter...and I'm sure many of them weren't artists. But clearly, we see Egyptian influence here.Enough nitpicking. The Saudi Archaeologists know MORE THAN YOU CHARLES!

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~Lysimachus

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I also have the Interlinear Hebrew, Greek and English and it translates from the original Hebrew: "your gods", "these".

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I just found this funny. You do realise that the translation of an Interlinear Bible is no more accurate than that of any other ?Now if you actually used the grammer of the Hebrew text to support your point you would be using an Interlinear Bible properly.