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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The "Gospel" Of John | |||||||||||||||||||||||
dpardo Inactive Member |
Arachnophilia writes: in fact, those dead animals often served the purpose of feeding the clergy. tell me, did the sanhedrin eat jesus? Jesus sacrifice was not exactly like the animal sacrificies. I think it's pretty obvious but... I will find and post the explanation. Added in edit: I already posted the explanation in Message 97. This message has been edited by dpardo, 12-15-2004 12:18 PM
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Arachnophilia writes: while we're on challenges of faith, try mark's definition of a christian on for size:
quote: go drink some bleach and then give me an e-mail. Now you are quote mining Jesus. Mark 16:13-20 gives us the context of your quote:
13 And they [those that had seen the risen Christ] went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. 14 Afterward he [Jesus] appeared unto the eleven [Apostles] as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. He was specifically addressing the Apostles. I am not an Apostle like the eleven.
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Arachnophilia writes: telling me to read that chapter would have been far more efficient. and i still don't like paul, nor pauline christianity. The thing is, Arachnophilia, that without Paul, what you have is Arachnophilian Christianity.
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Arachnophilia writes: a jew is not "saved" by works. or faith. most that i've talked to don't even think that way. it's simply for who they are: god's chosen, and it's not in terms of being saved from anything. sticking to the law comes a form of respect god's love. The context of Paul's letter to the Galatians that follows is: the gospel had been preached to the Galatians and the Church at Galatia was growing and maturing... Galatians 1:6-24:
6 I [Paul] marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. 18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. 19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. 20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not. 21 Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia; 22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ: 23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. 24 And they glorified God in me. Paul continues and explains to them what you are struggling with concerning the Law... Galatians 3:3-14:
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Emphasis mine.4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Edit: Grammar. This message has been edited by dpardo, 12-15-2004 12:08 PM
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Arachnophilia writes: no, the original pretext of the whole charade was going out into the wilderness for a ceremony, from which they would return. it was this that pharoah wouldn't allow them to do, and this they were sending them to. the text would not say "lent" if they knew they wouldn't come back. seriously, read your own quote again. it's one big trick, that god himself actually plays a part in. I will read the entire account again and get back to you on this one. What you are saying makes sense. If they were prevented from returning the items because the Pharoah changed his mind (yet again) and sent the Egyptian Army after them, is it stealing?
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Since you prefer to play ring-around-the-roses with Arach, can I assume that you are done with our discussion of John 9:22 and that you concede that Jews were not thrown out of the synagogues for following or acknowledging Jesus during his ministry?
quote: A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Purpledawn writes: ...can I assume that you are done with our discussion of John 9:22 and that you concede that Jews were not thrown out of the synagogues for following or acknowledging Jesus during his ministry? First, let me point out to you that the term in question is synagogue (singular) not synagogues (plural). Second, the verse(s) in question in John 9:22 specifically says: 22 These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue." This is in contrast to your statement:
quote: So I am talking about someone confessing Jesus as the Messiah and you are talking about Jesus' followers. As I said before, and I believe you have also noted, not all of his followers knew or believed that he was the Messiah. Since, ultimately, most Jews did not accept Jesus as the Messiah, John's statement is not inconsistent (and hence reasonable) with the Jews behavior.
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Purpledawn writes: Since you prefer to play ring-around-the-roses with Arach I am not "playing". I am addressing points brought up by other EVC members.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Are you saying we are not done with our discussion or you just want to start the cycle all over again?
quote:In Message 33 I already rephrased the statement since you don't consider followers as people who have acknowledged Jesus as the messiah. quote:If you notice, I did use synagogue (singular). quote:Please don't waste my time with word games. So far you have not shown me any evidence to counter my thoughts in Message 22.quote:You have fussed over followers as opposed to acknowledged and synagogues as opposed to synagogue. If you wish to seriously continue this discussion: Show me evidence that Jews who homologeo (confessed, professed, conceded, praised, declared, or acknowledged) openly that Jesus was the messiah were thrown out of the synagogue in Jerusalem, which is where the Pool of Siloam is located, during the ministry of Jesus. A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Purpledawn writes: Show me evidence that Jews who homologeo (confessed, professed, conceded, praised, declared, or acknowledged) openly that Jesus was the messiah were thrown out of the synagogue in Jerusalem, which is where the Pool of Siloam is located, during the ministry of Jesus. Is there any evidence, in the gospels, of anyone confessing Jesus as the Christ in a synagogue (in the time period we are referring to) period?
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4022 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
quote:No, without Paul what you have are the Ebionites, led by the physical brother of Jesus, James.
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Nighttrain writes: No, without Paul what you have are the Ebionites, led by the physical brother of Jesus, James. Do they have a different gospel?
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Or perhaps a group lead by the women that followed Jesus, or ones that followed Thomas or ...
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4022 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
quote:I believe they only followed the Gospel of Matthew.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
You tell me.
A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
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