What if Satan reformed?

I would suggest that anybody who regards Satan as a real being already "knows" all they need to know. They don't have much interest in what-ifs.They probably think questions like "What if Satan reformed?" are Satan-inspired.

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Even if "a satan" doesn't exist, wouldn't the characteristics still exixt?

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Jesus was clearly speaking figuratively. "You belong to your father, the devil" is figurative. "He is a liar and the father of lies" is figurative.Bit of a mixed metaphor there, actually. The devil is the father of (Jesus' audience) and also the father of lies. Kinda implies that the members of the audience are lies. Just goes to show that Jesus was only human. By the way, back up a few verses and see who the audience was:

quote:

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Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him....

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He was saying that believers are the spawn of Satan. So cut Him a little slack if He said there is "no" truth in Satan. Don't know where you get that "definition".
By my definition, the "devil" is the spirit of untruth in all of us. I think you miss the point of Jesus being fully human. We can be fully like Him. If He had some super-power that we don't have, He would not have been a man, and His significance would diminish. It's not a question of one "spirit" or the other. We have both "spirits" within us - that's what the knowledge of good and evil means. Interesting phrase, that. Kindly point out any fundie who doesn't imagine him/herself "free from any religion save their own". As for authority, how about making that "responsibility" instead? As in, "Freethinkers don't pass the buck to any authority".(Satanic or other.)

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Now I'm wondering why you equate "pagan" with "rebellious towards God".

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They have to be coexistent for one or the other to dominate at any given moment. Of course. Do you think he was kicking puppies on the way to pick up his silver? He could have done a hundred good things on the same day that he did one bad thing. Isn't that the point of the story? Wasn't Judas just like any of us? I don't see how Jesus' foreknowledge impacts in any way on the fact that Judas had a good side and a bad side. In fact, it sounds almost like Jesus chose Judas, doesn't it? Not clear at all, unless you think of Satan as some kind of puff-of-smoke phantom. It seems clearer to me that Jesus/God was allowing Satan - i.e. Judas' built in "dark side" - to "come to the surface". I don't think the preposition makes any difference at all. In this context, "in" and "with" are identical. You could just as easily say that "if God was in control of the world, there would be no wars, no murders, and no disagreements and competition".Once again, it's the knowledge of good and evil - we all have it in us. We all have the capacity to do good or evil.Judas didn't need to be "possessed" to do evil. Nobody does.If we do evil, we have only ourselves to blame, not "Satan".

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Do you think God sits on His cloud all day long like a teenage girl, waiting for us to call?
Do you think He cries Himself to sleep if we don't?Big Gods don't cry... big Gods don't cry....

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I think He does.That's where the whole free-will/knowledge-of-good-and-evil thing comes in. If He wanted us on a leash, He could have done that. But, like any parent, He does want us to leave the nest. God dependent on us? **checks to make sure this isn't the "unthinking blasphemy" thread**-------------So, what was the topic? What if Satan reformed?Satan could only "reform" if he was, in fact, separate from God. But the Bible depicts him (mostly) as a servant of God, somebody who is not independent. The Bible depicts him (mostly) as God's effort to test our independence.Edited by Ringo, : Typo.

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You don't have any kids, do you?Fathers don't want to "always be in control". They want their kids to grow up and be in control of (i.e. take responsibility for) their own lives. Daddy doesn't want his kids to live in His basement forever either. Going out into the real world has its temptations and its risks, but a mature parent wants his kids to mature too. Do you realize how silly that sounds?If Satan was as sharp as you imagine, do you think he wouldn't understand the "foregone conclusion" as well as you do? Why wouldn't he be trying to cut his losses instead of pulling a Hitler-in-the-bunker?

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Humans can only talk to humans in human terms. How is that "misleading"? That doesn't make sense. If everything is the "state of being", how can anything be separate from it? Exactly. But the "separation" can't be real.
Therefore, since there is no Satanic "self", the "annihilation of self" is already a fait accompli.(Welcome to Evc. )

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As I've been discussing with Buzsaw in another thread far, far away, man's relationship with God was much closer after they obtained the knowledge of good and evil.Before, He had spoken to Adam only once and to Eve never. He had walked with them never. After, the Bible is chock-full of stories of God talking to people and walking with people.As God said Himself, eating the fruit made them more like Him. They needed to eat the fruit to have closer communion with God. Communion between equals is always better than up or down a chain of command. So, logically, since there is no "alternate reality", there is no Satan. The Adam and Eve story disagrees with you. They became more independent, took responsibility for their own lives and improved their communications with God.It's the exact opposite of "excommunicating oneself". Jesus said that we love God by loving "the family" - i.e. our fellow man. Better communication with "the family" - empathy for their needs - is better communication with God.

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There is only one perspective, only one reality - our perspective, our reality.No rocket science, no Satan. As I showed, we have NOT lost communion with God - Genesis is very clear about that - so there is nothing to "regain".

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Phat,You're not responding at all to anything I post. You're just preaching. The whole point of Jesus is that He was like us.Edited by Ringo, : Re-grammarification.

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Hi, viewfromthetop.I can hardly wait till paragraphs are invented. How about you? It seems to me that the ones who claim special insight - the ones who claim to "see" what others don't - are the ones who are prideful.

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I didn't read much of your premises, for reasons that I hinted at.Could you present your case a little more carefully - bearing in mind that the topic is "What if Satan reformed?"And set your bullhorn to "stun".

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See, that's where it starts to stop making sense. When the program is completed, we don't throw the computer into a lake of fire. Why would God do that? Again, that makes no sense.Why would God create a program that was "diametrically opposed" to himself? (In my experience, programs are quite capable on their own of doing the opposite of what I want. ) Sounds like you're saying that God is having a tug-of-war with his own program. When that happens to me, I have Ctrl+Alt+Delete to fall back on.But you make it sound like God has no further control over His own creation.-------------I'm aware of the dogma, but I was hoping you'd put some thought into it. The question here is "What if Satan reformed?", not "Why can't Satan reform?"

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