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Author Topic:   Old Laws Still Valid?
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 166 of 303 (373515)
01-01-2007 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by jaywill
01-01-2007 8:24 PM


Re: Old laws still valid!
So this must mean that your personal morality is a bad source of laws. This must mean that your personal morality that morality is a bad source of laws is ALSO not trustworthy.
Not even up to platitude standards, but almost Jabberwocky.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by jaywill, posted 01-01-2007 8:24 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by jaywill, posted 01-01-2007 8:44 PM jar has replied

jaywill
Member (Idle past 1972 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 167 of 303 (373519)
01-01-2007 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by jar
01-01-2007 8:34 PM


Re: Old laws still valid!
Not even up to platitude standards, but almost Jabberwocky.
Flush. Spray. As usual.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by jar, posted 01-01-2007 8:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Rob, posted 01-01-2007 8:59 PM jaywill has not replied
 Message 169 by jar, posted 01-01-2007 9:02 PM jaywill has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 168 of 303 (373522)
01-01-2007 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by jaywill
01-01-2007 8:44 PM


Re: Old laws still valid!
Flush. Spray. As usual.
Frustrating isn't it?
In jar's defense, you didn't say it very well (an edit might be good), but the point was clear.
And it doesn't matter. Even if you spell it out in the clearest terms and with m-a-t-h-e-m-a-t-i-c-a-l___p-r-e-c-i-s-i-o-n... he just waves his hands and wishes it away.
Poof! Just like that!
There ought to be a Law!
Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by jaywill, posted 01-01-2007 8:44 PM jaywill has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 169 of 303 (373523)
01-01-2007 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by jaywill
01-01-2007 8:44 PM


Re: Old laws still valid!
Well, when someone posts a ludicrous message like ...
So this must mean that your personal morality is a bad source of laws. This must mean that your personal morality that morality is a bad source of laws is ALSO not trustworthy.
... how can you expect much more of an answer.
Of course my personal morality is not a good source for laws.
The second sentence though is just plain stupid. The sentence "This must mean that your personal morality that morality is a bad source of laws is ALSO not trustworthy." is utterly meaningless, in addition to simply being inaccurate it is but a collection of words strung together to give the impression to the ignorant that there is any meaning hidden in there.
First, it is not my personal morality that morality is a bad source of laws. It is my personal opinion.
Second, stating that I hold a particular opinion says absolutely nothing about whether or not it is trustworthy.
I had tried to be easy on you by not going into the details but since you did not take the hint, your post was just plain dumb.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by jaywill, posted 01-01-2007 8:44 PM jaywill has not replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 170 of 303 (373524)
01-01-2007 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by iceage
01-01-2007 7:34 PM


Re: The law is deadly... and Holy
Romans 7:12? As someone said below... more platitudes.
You think he comes from below?
That's not very nice!
Those posts are from the top on my screen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by iceage, posted 01-01-2007 7:34 PM iceage has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3026 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 171 of 303 (373528)
01-01-2007 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by jar
01-01-2007 5:30 PM


Re: Still just platitudes
What law? The "law of sin and death." The soul who sins will die.
Call grace and truth more platitudes if you will, but Jesus Christ is the only ONE who can deliver you from the "law of sin and death" and save you from your sins.

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 01-01-2007 5:30 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by jar, posted 01-01-2007 9:41 PM John 10:10 has replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5946 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 172 of 303 (373529)
01-01-2007 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by jaywill
01-01-2007 8:06 PM


Re: The law is deadly... and Holy
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Paul writes:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: And the dead Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: And so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Hebrew 1 Paul writes:
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
The use of "we" and "these last days" above is hard to reconcile.
The NT tells us that both Paul and Jesus, expected the end times to be within their generation. There many other quotes where it is written that Jesus taught of the end times within the current generation and that "there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Kingdom of God come". They believed that the end of the world was coming in the lifetime of their contemporaries.
This explains why Paul would tell his followers "it is good for a man not to touch a women" but if you have to "it is better to marry than to burn". Telling people that it is weak to procreate is not a good way to propagate a religion ideology for generations to come, since most people settle into the religion of their fathers.
jayhill writes:
If Paul believed he was living in the "last days" then why does he tell his co-worker about the "last days" which "will come"?
The phrase "will come" certainly does not exclude the current generation.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by anastasia, posted 01-01-2007 9:40 PM iceage has replied
 Message 185 by jaywill, posted 01-02-2007 7:40 AM iceage has replied
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5984 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 173 of 303 (373532)
01-01-2007 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by iceage
01-01-2007 9:32 PM


Re: The law is deadly... and Holy
iceage writes:
The use of "we" and "these last days" above is hard to reconcile.
I am not trying to take sides, but in this passage it sounds possibly that 'last days' could mean 'recent days' just as well. Where are our scholars?!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by iceage, posted 01-01-2007 9:32 PM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by iceage, posted 01-01-2007 9:58 PM anastasia has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 174 of 303 (373533)
01-01-2007 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by John 10:10
01-01-2007 9:32 PM


Re: Still just platitudes
What law? The "law of sin and death." The soul who sins will die.
Call grace and truth more platitudes if you will, but Jesus Christ is the only ONE who can deliver you from the "law of sin and death" and save you from your sins.
More nonsense and totally irrelevant babble.
Getting saved from sins has nothing to do with the topic. In case you have forgotten the topic is "Old Laws Still Valid?"
In Message 96 there is a list of some of the old laws. If you would like to make a case for why they should still be valid please do so, but stop bringing up unrelated irrelevant babble to try to move the goal posts.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by John 10:10, posted 01-01-2007 9:32 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by John 10:10, posted 01-02-2007 6:47 AM jar has replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5946 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 175 of 303 (373540)
01-01-2007 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by anastasia
01-01-2007 9:40 PM


Re: The law is deadly... and Holy
it sounds possibly that 'last days' could mean 'recent days'
"Last days" and "recent days" is a very significant difference. Not one translation I am aware of use the meaning of 'recent days' or 'just lately'. It really does not fit with the chapter.
Why would a godly inspired work be so unclear on a very important point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by anastasia, posted 01-01-2007 9:40 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by anastasia, posted 01-01-2007 10:53 PM iceage has replied

anastasia
Member (Idle past 5984 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 176 of 303 (373564)
01-01-2007 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by iceage
01-01-2007 9:58 PM


Re: The law is deadly... and Holy
iceage writes:
Why would a godly inspired work be so unclear on a very important point?
Now that I can't answer. Maybe it was just some uninspired musings of Paul.
But regardless of translations, I think it is possible to say 'I have had a headache these last days' and not mean the end of the world is coming.
Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by iceage, posted 01-01-2007 9:58 PM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5946 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 177 of 303 (373572)
01-01-2007 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by anastasia
01-01-2007 10:53 PM


Re: The law is deadly... and Holy
Sounds awkward
anastasia writes:
I have had a headache these last days
If someone I knew used this phase I would be alarmed at their possible mental state.
Nevertheless Paul uses the term "last days" often to refer to the end times. I am trusting the translators got it right as there is no disagreement in any translation as to the meaning.
Also there are other quotes of Paul referring to the end within his generation such as the quoted "then we which are alive".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by anastasia, posted 01-01-2007 10:53 PM anastasia has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 178 of 303 (373596)
01-02-2007 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Rob
01-01-2007 7:07 PM


Re: The law is deadly... and Holy
scottness writes:
So who should I believe? You? Or the Apostle paul?
Frankly, I couldn't care less what you believe. I'm just trying to expose some of your most egregious errors so that people who are capable of reason can make up their own minds.
I have quoted what Jesus said. If you choose to reject Jesus in favour of a misinterpreation of Paul, that's your lookout.
Do you think this means that if I love myself by indulging in the pleasures of life, that I fulfill the law by sharing those indulgences with others?
Is that what you're suggesting?
Yes.
So Ringo, as Jesus said, 'Do this, and you will live.'
If you think you can do that, then you're a better man than I.
Don't be so hard on yourself. Doing something is the easiest thing in the world. Deciding what to do is not always easy, since morality is so relative. Sometimes you will screw up and sometimes you won't. But the only wrong approach is to sit in your ivory tower and do nothing.
I don't even deserve to be in your presence!
I agree, but I'm not an admin.
That's the whole message I'm afraid... that reality is perfect....
If you think that's the "whole" message, or any part of the message, you have good reason to be afraid. Reality is far from perfect.
... if you want an excuse to live whatever lifestyle that suits you, then the Bible is not your friend.
That's the opposite of what I've been saying. I've been saying that we have to live whatever lifestyle suits our neighbour as well as ourselves. And I was quoting Jesus when I said it.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Rob, posted 01-01-2007 7:07 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Rob, posted 01-02-2007 1:42 AM ringo has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5880 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 179 of 303 (373601)
01-02-2007 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by ringo
01-02-2007 12:48 AM


Re: The law is deadly... and Holy
You said:
Reality is far from perfect.
Ringo, let's step back and forget whatever beliefs we may have about reality and what it is, or what it is not. Whatever reality is, it exists, and most importantly, for sake of this thread, reality and it's Laws are all there is in the totality of things.
If logic is valid (if reason is valid), reality cannot be other than perfect, just the way it is.
And again, in light of the topic, it is my deep conviction that any deviation (in the slightest) from that reality and it's laws is implicitly unlawful and therefore justifiable only by supporting the validity of illogical thinking in deference to one's present passions.
Real passion and energy come from a relationship with our sensible, exquisite, and rational creator and being in unity with His Laws.
You said:
Frankly, I couldn't care less what you believe.
Well that's a problem isn't it?
I do care what you believe because you are of essential worth and made in the image of God. The thoughts in your mind were never meant to be the operating system for your soul. You can choose another one. You were created to be glorious and free within the law, not a prisoner to blindness and sin.
Law is order. And order can be built layer upon layer without limit. Life is built on laws and order. It reveals the capacity for information to become so richly expressed that this whole universe becomes real and far from mundane.
Law and order is free to do all that is right and legitimate. It is not about withholding pleasure from the creature, but bringing true pleasure by the act's harmony with the right time for that pleasure. To do otherwise is contradiction, conflict, death, and delusion.
Mark 3:26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come.
2Th 2:4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Your body is God's temple, not the house of serpents who oppose themselves.
John 2:19
Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."
You were created to walk in the Law. But no one can do that without the One Spirit that knows the way to guide them because He is the law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by ringo, posted 01-02-2007 12:48 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 181 by iceage, posted 01-02-2007 1:56 AM Rob has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 180 of 303 (373604)
01-02-2007 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by Rob
01-02-2007 1:42 AM


scottness writes:
If logic is valid (if reason is valid), reality cannot be other than perfect, just the way it is.
Silly. And off-topic.
You were created to walk in the Law. But no one can do that without the One Spirit that knows the way to guide them because He is the law.
I quoted what He said about the law. Respond to that.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

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