Old Laws Still Valid?

Are you sure you know what "the law" is?

Getting "saved" has everything to do with THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH (Eze 18:4)Rom 7:24 "Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death"Rom 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."This is what all the OT laws were about, to bring man to a knowledge of sin and the truth that man is a sinner and needs a SAVIOR. If you dismiss this as more platitudes, why even bother with what the Bible has to say about anything?

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

That is definitely *not* what the OT Laws were about.Another bible zealot that does not have a clue what the Law is.

Since you bring up Ezekiel 18I wanted to point out that from allegedly god's perspective, salvation included avoiding women during menstruation. Defiling and evil menstrual women - stay clear guys.Obviously salvation was a male only thing in the OT. Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

On 1 Thess. 4:16-17:No it isn't. Paul exspressed the oneness of the Body of Christ and the unity of the church as a collective entity repeatedly. The "we" usage only underscores this unity. Why shouldn't he say "we"?The usage of "we" there is not proof that Paul was was "mistaken". In fact to the same congregation he outlines the events which must take place to signal that Christ's parousia is emminent. Particularly about the coming of the man of sin (the Antichrist). He was not in the middle of such happenings.He certainly may have wanted the Lord Jesus to return as soon as possible. That is his longing and his desire. That is not his mistake.
He loved the Lord Jesus and of course like all the lovers of Christ longed for Him to come soon.Concerning Hebrews chapter 1 "these last days" are exactly what they say - "these last days" and not necessarily the days of the second coming of Christ. "[T]hese last days" there refer more to His incarnation in which the living Word of God has become flesh (John 1:14) and therefore God has spoken to us in the Son.You might have ground to say that from the incarnation of Christ to His second coming is one age. And you might have the ground to say that that age (from His incarnation to His second coming) is a last age. I would not object to that because the writer of Hebrews says:"But now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested for the putting away of sin through the sacrifice of Himself .... So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time to those who eagerly await Him ..." (See Heb. 9:26-28)We call this the church age or the age of grace. But the fact that we may biblically call that one consummating age says nothing about the length of it. And it doesn't prove that the writer of Hebrews mistakenly thought Christ would return any day.Paul and Peter and John all were very responsible and sober in preparing the future generations of Christians. They prepared the disciples for the long term. Paul's coaching of Timothy is with a soberminded realization that he, Paul, would soon not be around and Timothy would have to carry on the ministry.Peter's tone is exactly the same. He prepared the recipients of his letters for the long term. He told them that with God one day was like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day.All the apostles in the New Testament, though they longed for Christ to come soon, were not deceived to believe they had assurance that He would come before they expired. And they all responsibly prepared the future disciples. They prepared them for a sojourn in this unbelieving world for as long as it might take for Christ spread the gospel to the world and build His church.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Jaywill look at the quote in complete context. Here it is again.... Now what does "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" mean to you?The whole quote was provided and you ignored that and went on some other discourse that does not pertain.

It does pertain. Now to repeat. Paul is a part of the "we" as a member of the universal church. Paul is a part of the "we" as a consituent of the Body of Christ.The church universal covers many years, even centries, and many geographic areas.Paul saying "we" in that passage has no bearing whatsoever on his belief that he would be one of those left remaining or one of those alive at the time or having previously departed. He is only speaking in terms of the corporate unitfied "we" of the universal church.In Ephesians 4 Paul writes "Until WE all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a full grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" (EPh.4:13 my emphasis)Don't say that this is not relevant. It is. Here again Paul is speaking about the eventual maturity of the church. She must grow into a full grown man someday. She must mature. Does he know it will happen in his lifetime? No he does not. But he is a part of the collective and aggregate "we".The same applies in the Thesselonian passage.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I wrote: I mean that Paul did not know in which catagory he would be in at the time of the event.

Maybe the RCC was right the scripture should not be in the hands of the unwashed masses. Since the literal reading of "we that are alive" explicitly and clearly refers to current generation and not some universal church. If it was to mean like you say it would be written as "then those that are alive". That is clear of who the subject is referring to.Why would godly inspired works be written so obtuse?

As sure as one can be in a world such as ours. Are those thoughts you are thinking now, or are they incorrect?It is reality. The Word of God! Inalterable! Like the laws of physics, the moral laws are written in stone (tablets) as per this thread. They're still valid, not the Mosaic laws.How can you seperate the truth (or law) from reality? They are part and parcel.Law, truth, and God are all one Spirt, as in:John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men...It's not my story, and not my subjection. It's the law of non-contradiction embodied. It's the Word of God and his name is Jesus.He is the Law and He proved it on the cross, so that I don't have to.Iceage... did you know you can feed on the Law?John 6:60 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?" 61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62 What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.As Morpheus told Neo, 'Remember, all I am offering is the truth. No-one can open the door for you, you have to open it'. Or, take the blue pill and continue to believe whatever you want to believe.Revelation 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.If you want to meet the Law, then like Trinity said to Neo, "Let me give you some advice, be honest with him.'The Law said: Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed... Edited by scottness, : No reason given.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

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If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)

Well, everyone that gets born will die. But the salvation bit is a done deal.GOD forgave everyone. No exceptions. Atheist and Agnostic, Christian and Muslim, Jew and Taoist, Wiccan and Satanist, all start out saved.Nobody starts off damned.So that is nothing much to worry about.What folk do need to worry about is their behavior. While you cannot earn salvation, that was freely given to all, you can screw up.You need to try to do what is right, try not to do what is wrong, when you screw up acknowledge it and try to do better in the future.That, not platitudes, not beliefs, not profession, is what you will be judged upon.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

The problem is that you don't accept what the Bible has to say about the Law, sin, and accountability to God.Romans 3:19-20 "Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin."

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

I don't know what salvation you are talking about, but it's not the Bible kind of salvation. According to Jesus, the Bible kind of God's salvation is given freely to the "whosoever wills" of John 3;16. The "whosoever won'ts" are promised no salvation according to John 3:18.Those that are willing to start at God's starting point can then move forward to the good works that follow God's salvation. Those who try to rely "only" on their good works will find them insufficient to cover their sins.It's as simple and as difficult as that.

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

No one can earn salvation. Please stop implying that I have asserted that.Salvation was given freely to all, not just those who profess some belief. Any reading that says belief in GOD is a requirement simply makes God evil.I do not believe in an EVIL God or some little bling-bling pimp daddy of a goddlet that gets pissed if dissed.You can find my support for the belief that everyone starts out forgiven in the thread Message 1 and in Message 1 and in Message 1 as well as many other threads.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yes, salvation in Christ Jesus is freely given to ALL, but salvation in Christ Jesus is NOT accepted by all. This is the Jesus Christ kind of salvation as revealed in the Bible.Of course, if you want to put your faith and trust in some other kind of salvation, be my guest.It's as simple and as difficult as that.

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10