Evidence for God

What is the point of all this? We are not discussing evolution at all. Science has nothing to do with this debate.

The book of Judges was written by Samuel the prophet. All of the authors are known, and they are written in the Talmud.

You are a sad individual and you are making no point at all. You are entitled to your beliefs, but you are not making any valid arguments. Furthermore, I consider your posts to be as amusing as you probably consider my posts. Try to think of it that way. As absurd as you may think Theism is, that is how absurd I consider Atheism to be. Your arguments are complete mockery in my eyes. I have already explained exactly what science is all about. They do not find any actual truth, but they find patterns in the world and give these patterns names. Everything that exists in the world is either shown to fit with some pattern or it is just considered so complicated that it has not been solved at this point in time. Scientists see a moon and they hypothesize that it was a result of something that crashed into earth. This is not very sophisticated at all if you ask me. Why don't the scientists start by figuring out the cause of lightning and thunder? I would first explain the present world before making up fancy stories about what happened in the past.

Before I do this, please provide evidence that you typed this message. Also, please provide evidence that anyone wrote any book in the world. There is no way of providing evidence of who wrote what book. Some people do not believe William Shakespeare actually wrote all of the brilliant plays that are ascribed to him. And you know what, nobody can prove it otherwise. Think about how it is possible to give evidence of any individual author. Then I will try to give you some of that evidence.Just to remind you, I said that the author of the book of Judges is Samuel the prophet, and this is known through the oral tradition that is documented in the Talmud.Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.

Please explain the scientific explanation for thunder and give me the reason why this explanation is satisfactory. Also, please add the previous theories that were accepted up until recently, and explain why they are not accepted anymore.

So if G-d will actually talk to you and tell you to build an ark, would you be doing it with "blind" faith? I was only asserting that the knowledge of G-d's existence should not be based on blind faith.

I am explaining to you that every observant Jew around today is giving testimony that the Torah is authentic. This is the testimony that I was referring to, and I thought I made this point clearly. Other, religions have testimony to their books as well. However, other religions are only testifying to a man that wrote their books years ago. If all religions are more or less testifying to about a book that was written by one person, it is easily believed that this person did actually write the book. However, the author could still have been lying. The Jews, on the other hand, are testifying to a book that was accepted by 600,000 people who all believed that they had heard the voice of G-d. Therefore, there is testimony by all of the Jewish people that supports the stories written in the Torah. It is also interesting to add that the Jewish people are always zealous about having a tradition behind everything. If you have ever read the Talmud, you would have seen that anything that does not have a clear tradition is not considered to be known. Jews question everything, and no rules are followed without a clear tradition. Special precautions are made with regard to certain laws in order to prevent a passerby from thinking that the rule is one way and not the other. Asserting that a tradition such as this one must have been altered is completely baseless.As I said to other people here, I am giving evidence not proof. If G-d does exist, the world is evidence of his existence. It is like you doing anything with your life. Every mark that you leave on the world is evidence of your existence. Although it will be almost impossible for anyone to show that the evidence belongs to you, it does not alter the idea that you have left evidence. I am making a similar argument with regard to everything that exists and G-d.Also, checkup some of your history of Hinduism before using it as an example.

Actually, what I have proven is that you cannot prove who wrote any book in the entire world. Don't pretend that you don't know what I was saying. Clues from the text pointing to many unknown authors is completely meaningless because we know who wrote the books. It is called testimony and tradition. Let me repeat, you cannot prove to me in any conclusive manner what the author of "any" book in the entire world really is. I hope this is a little clearer since you obviously did not understand what I wrote previously.

Are you even following my line of reasoning? I will give you the same challenge as I have given Brian. Please prove in a conclusive manner who the author of any book in the entire world is. In fact, please prove to me in a conclusive manner that any event in the past actually happened. You are not able to. All history is based on writings and witnesses. All of these could have been forged. But, there is no benefit in assuming that every writing in the world may actually be a hoax. This line of reasoning will get you nowhere. Therefore, testimony and writings are accepted as evidence from a historians perspective. I have therefore asserted that most religions have a valid argument for the origin of there holy books. However, even if you follow every religion to the core of their holy books, they all must result in the testimony of one man. This is not the case in Judaism. If you follow the tradition all the way back you arrive at the testimony of 600,000 people. This is valid evidence.

Can you step up to the challenge? Please give me some conclusive evidence that will prove who the author of any book in the entire world actually is. Also, please give me some examples of your problems with the Torah. Just stating that such problems exist is meaningless.

I claim that the only way of knowing any history is through the written testimony and the oral testimony. There is no other conclusive evidence. However, I assume you believe in most of the other things that historians have to say. You do believe that World War I happened right. I am trying to show you that the same methods used to show that other historical events have happened, can be used to show that the giving of the Torah actually happened.With regard to your first problem with the Torah, how do you know that it was not called Dan during the time of Moses? Just because it is mentioned later in the Book of Kings Chapter 12 Verse 29 does not show that it had a different name years earlier. Now let us assume that it did have a different name in the time of Moses, this would actually show a prophecy not a problem. However, any prophecy that has come true since the time of the Torah will only show to you that the Torah must have been written later, or must have been edited by later writers. We see here again that it is all a matter of perspective. Also, I think it should also be pointed out that the oral tradition written in the Talmud has something to be interpreted from the mentioning of this place. You are not the first one to analyze this verse. It has already been analyzed by the oral tradition, and written down over a thousand years ago.

The firstborn does go after the Father alone; verify this yourself. The Jewish people had many wives as you are well aware. According to tradition, the Jewish women gave birth to six children in one pregnancy in Egypt. Now go back and find something else.Also, I don't know where you are verifying these so called "current estimates of the population of Canaan." Please explain.Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.

Try the Book of Joshua Chapter 19 verse 47. In this verse another Dan seems to be discussed. If you are only taking the scripture on face value, you have no proof that there was only one Dan in Israel. I hope you see what I mean.Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.

Wow, I will kill two questions with one answer, try Deuteronomy Chapter 21 verse 15. This verse discusses who will be the first born in a case where a man has two wives one of whom he s, and the d one happens to give birth to the first born. I will get back to you on the reference that you requested for the multiple children in a single pregnancy. However for now just check up the beginning of the book of Exodus, namely chapter 1 verses 9 through 22. These verses discuss the multiplying of the Jewish people, and how the pharaoh tries to stop it. These verses may also explain how the Jews were able to have many wives. Think about what is going on.Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.

This was your worst shot yet. It does not say the word "if." It actually says a Hebrew word that sounds like "key." This word can be translated as when. Also, this is a rule that is meant to be followed for generations to come as well. Did you notice the previous verses which talk about going out to war. It also says the word "key." Does that mean that they did not go out to war yet. It was not describing the people of that generation alone. Furthermore, you cannot give me any logic that will show that even the word "if" would lead to such a conclusion. Very very funny. Poor shot I must say. Two can be many, and I only picked this verse because it settled your other claim as well. You find me a source that says that they cannot have more than one wife. You will find none! David had how many wives? He had more than two. This was such a cheap shot, and I can't believe you would try this. Also, with regard your other claim, not all of the children are mentioned in the verse. The Torah is not a story book, and therefore it does not mention what is not necessary. The questions in that link look really foolish to say the least. The Jewish tradition has had explanations for all of these things for thousands of years. These people think they are smart, but they are actually showing their ignorance. The bottom line is, if you don't believe in G-d you will try desperately to falsify the Torah even if it means bringing up questions that would make you look like a fool to anyone who actually studied the religion.
Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.