Jazzns, please follow the train of logic. Well over 50% of conceptuses are spontaneously aborted without anyone having known otherwise, is the claim. If no one knows how many end up in the toilet, then that is quite unobserved, is it not?
No. We can observe it in the lab. Under scientific scrutiny.
Unless of course you think scientists live inside toilet bowls and check fertilization.
No. They work diligently inside labs to study one thing that is very important to humans which is procreation.
And if they do not have that information then cannot establish a baseline, now could they?
They do have that information, it has been presented to you that they do. You are denying facts.
You just keep touting that science knows it (the ever ubiquitous and infallible science) yet not one person here is seeing the obvious (or playing dumb) -- namely, that they could not know or observe such a phenomenon in order to accurately estimate how many fertilized eggs end up in a toilet UNLESS they.... knew..... she..... was...... pregnant..... in...... the...... first place.
And YOU just keep rephrasing the very same Argument from Incredulity. Science CAN and HAS observed this phenomenon in the lab. If you think that we can't use those observations in the real world then you are denying that science can produce knowledge and you have a much bigger problem than a moral on one your hands.
No, it is not knowable!!! Straggler claimed that most fertilized eggs end up in the toilet unbeknownst to menstruating women everywhere.
Right! Most women don't take highly expensive and sensitive hormone tests every single month just before they are about to menstruate to determine if an egg has been fertilized. But scientists sometimes DO!
Question: How would anyone know the egg was fertilized in the first place without scientificially VERIFYING fertilization in the FIRST place???? Hello?!?!?!
Very simply we "scientifically VERIFY fertilization"! Do you think this is impossible or something?
Labor - Women's Health Issues - Merck Manuals Consumer Version
One of these tests, called an enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA), can quickly and easily detect even a low level of human chorionic gonadotropin in urine. Some tests can detect the very low level that is present several days after fertilization (before a menstrual period is missed). Results may be available in about half an hour.
There is an arms race among commercially available pregnancy tests to cheaply detect these hormones as early as possible.
Remember, she doesn't even know she was ever pregnant. That means NO one knows she was pregnant either, including doctors and scientists because it is unobserved and therefore unverifiable.
That is just because YOU are unimaginative and fallaciously incredulous. It is a good thing that science is not or else we would still have a number of unsolved problems in the realm of human reproduction.
Everyone simply keeps appealing to authority, but no one is explaining how they could know, and yet also have no one know they were pregnant at the same time.
Actually, a NUMBER of people have described how they "could know" and I have yet again. You have just either not read, not understood, or like to be argumentative about facts.
Since no one wants to discuss abortion, there is no sense in continuing.
Again, even supposing we allow for Straggler's red herring we should still be able to continue with the discussion. His ENTIRE premise hinges on whether or not I think we should do more to mitigate miscarriages. I have already unequivocally stated that I support more research.
Apparently unless I achieve omnispresence and omnipotence and wait patiently inside everyone women's toilet with a strainer ready to rescusitate a fetus, I must not care.
I don't particularly care about alleged deficiencies of Straggler's argument. I personally think that a better argument against abortion restriction is that in a free society we do not restrict privacy, medical decision, family decision, and body sovereignty without very solid reasons to do so. Since the personhood of a fetus is a gray area, I don't think it is a very solid basis on which to impinge on the basic human freedoms of half of our population.
I jumped into this discussion because you were committing a very distinct logical fallacy which implies a denial of reality. You can have your own opinion about the morals of abortion, but perhaps you shouldn't complain when other people call you on your denial of facts.
Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.
Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson
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