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Author Topic:   American Budget Cuts
Coyote
Member
Posts: 4679
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 16 of 350 (605570)
02-20-2011 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Dr Adequate
02-20-2011 11:29 PM


Re: no brainer?
Yes, but people still get paid for making them, and then spend the money, so it's not completely a pit. It is arguably more pit-like than other forms of spending.

Right.

All of the money spent on such things goes into the American economy and circulates around and around.

What doesn't do so is the money sent to Saudi Arabia et al. for oil. What little we see of that coming back is in the form of mosques teaching a radical fundamentalist version of Islam. That we could do without.

How about we build a bunch of nuclear plants instead? With sufficient energy we can do almost anything.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-20-2011 11:29 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Jon, posted 02-20-2011 11:42 PM Coyote has responded
 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-21-2011 12:02 AM Coyote has responded

Jon
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Minnesota, U.S.A.
Joined: 12-29-2005
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 17 of 350 (605572)
02-20-2011 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Dr Adequate
02-20-2011 11:29 PM


Re: no brainer?
Yes, but people still get paid for making them, and then spend the money, so it's not completely a pit. It is arguably more pit-like than other forms of spending.

Money spending does not a healthy economy make. The underlying tradethat which the money representsis what keeps the system running; when the trading involves useless unproductive crap, then that's the kind of economy we get: useless and unproductive.

Jon

Edited by Jon, : clarity


Check out Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-20-2011 11:29 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Jon
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Minnesota, U.S.A.
Joined: 12-29-2005
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 18 of 350 (605574)
02-20-2011 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Coyote
02-20-2011 11:33 PM


Re: no brainer?
What doesn't do so is the money sent to Saudi Arabia et al. for oil. What little we see of that coming back is in the form of mosques teaching a radical fundamentalist version of Islam. That we could do without.

Does anyone still buy that stupid Mid-East oil argument? Jeesh...


Check out Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Coyote, posted 02-20-2011 11:33 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Coyote, posted 02-20-2011 11:53 PM Jon has responded

Coyote
Member
Posts: 4679
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 19 of 350 (605575)
02-20-2011 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Jon
02-20-2011 11:42 PM


Re: no brainer?
Does anyone still buy that stupid Mid-East oil argument? Jeesh...

Refute it if you can.

Show us how money sent to Arab princes for oil benefits our economy more than money spent here at home on high technology and cheap energy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Jon, posted 02-20-2011 11:42 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Jon, posted 02-21-2011 12:16 AM Coyote has not yet responded

Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 45 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


(1)
Message 20 of 350 (605577)
02-21-2011 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by RAZD
02-20-2011 10:40 PM


Re: no brainer?
Your point describes how most of the Republican rhetoric about spending goes. We want less taxes, less, taxes, and less spending, except where we want more taxes and spending. They rode this whole idea of fiscal responsibility to the November elections, but I think no one should have been fooled that they were talking about responsibility for themselves or their friends.

So who is supposed to be responsible? Of course its the median salary workers. You see, teachers, firefighters, nurses, government employees, they are all too well paid. Their greed is what is killing America. As Rush Limbaugh put it, they are freeloaders. Caps on salary gaps between the highest earners and lowest earners in companies? Limits on banking executive bonuses? Cuts in military spending? Are you kidding, no way. But of course there are some tax cuts these fiscally responsible Republicans are actually for. Such as get rid of the tax exemption for unemployment benefits. Just because you are unemployed doesn't mean you shouldn't be paying more taxes!

Do you think the Wisconsin Governor's salary and his perks will be affected by the great compromises we all need to make to help the state? Can we take away his health insurance, and close down the Governors mansion? How about a public vote annually to determine his salary?

The problem Republicans have with cutting military spending, aside from the obvious fact that Republicans like guns, and military brute, and force as a high priority diplomatic solution, is that when you spend money on bombs, you aren't giving money to someone who they feel doesn't deserve it. Whereas when you spend money on people, it is an entitlement. It doesn't matter if these people work for it, or if they provide services to our country, or if they are needy, or even if its important for the community. As Limbaugh the fat ass said, they are freeloaders. He is not special or unique as a Republican with this mentality.

Unless you are a multi-millioniare that wanted to protect your estate from taxes, or keep your military contracts rolling, if you voted for a Republican, you may well deserve to lose any benefits your work gave you, or unemployment checks you may find yourself in need of, or bargaining power you had with your company. You should have know this is exactly what they wanted to give you.

Have you ever heard of Republicans asking for sacrifice from the elite, from the wealthy, from the heads of companies instead of the working class? Hell no. It is any surprise that it is the Warren Buffets and Bill Gates and George Soroses of the world who offer to give up large portions of their own wealth to help others, and not the Bushes and the Murdochs, and the Cheneys and Charles Kochs of the world?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2011 10:40 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by RAZD, posted 02-21-2011 10:25 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12680
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 21 of 350 (605578)
02-21-2011 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Coyote
02-20-2011 11:33 PM


Re: no brainer?
What doesn't do so is the money sent to Saudi Arabia et al. for oil. What little we see of that coming back is in the form of mosques teaching a radical fundamentalist version of Islam. That we could do without.

Even with money spent on foreign goods it's arguable that what goes around comes around. But yes, that's quite pit-like.

I just looked it up, and apparently we have a bigger trade deficit with Ireland than with Saudi Arabia. Who knew?

What the heck are we buying? Potatoes? Guinness? Feckless charm?

How about we build a bunch of nuclear plants instead?

I'm with you there. So is Obama.

President Barack Obama announced $8.3 billion in loan guarantees Tuesday to build the first U.S. nuclear power plant in nearly three decades [...] The government backing will go to help Southern Co build two reactors at a plant in the state of Georgia. The reactors, which some experts estimate will cost $8.8 billion, could be in service in 2016 and 2017. *

President Barack Obamas 2012 budget almost triples U.S. loan guarantees for nuclear power-plant construction, funds development of a new breed of smaller reactors and spends more on breakthrough energy research. *

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Coyote, posted 02-20-2011 11:33 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Coyote, posted 02-21-2011 12:10 AM Dr Adequate has responded
 Message 26 by slevesque, posted 02-21-2011 2:17 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Coyote
Member
Posts: 4679
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 22 of 350 (605579)
02-21-2011 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Dr Adequate
02-21-2011 12:02 AM


Re: no brainer?
The Irish are our friends. They send us Celtic Woman.

The Saudis are not our friends. They send us mosques preaching sharia, and wanting to implement it here.

I'll take the former any day, thank you. (I saw them last fall and they were great!)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-21-2011 12:02 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-21-2011 1:42 AM Coyote has not yet responded

Jon
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Minnesota, U.S.A.
Joined: 12-29-2005
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 23 of 350 (605580)
02-21-2011 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Coyote
02-20-2011 11:53 PM


Re: no brainer?
Show us how money sent to Arab princes for oil benefits our economy more than money spent here at home on high technology and cheap energy.

Is that the argument you were making?

Fooled me!


Check out Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Coyote, posted 02-20-2011 11:53 PM Coyote has not yet responded

Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 45 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


(1)
Message 24 of 350 (605582)
02-21-2011 12:29 AM


Opt Out Plan
I have an idea for all those who are opposed to taxes and spending. Its called The Opt Out Plan.

Anyone who doesn't want to pay federal and state taxes can simply decide to "Opt Out". No taxes for you. Your problems are solved. Every year on your tax form you just write the words Opt Out, and send it back, no questions asked.

Now of course some services won't be available to you in the same way that it is for those who decide to pay their taxes. For instance, when you use the electricity or the internet you are going to have to pay a higher rate, to make up for all the government spending that goes into installing and upkeeping these services. Likewise for water at home, and natural gas. If you have any children, well, you better plan early for them. They still get to be educated, but you are going to have to pay for it. And if they go on to university, you better make sure they get into a private one. Oh, and maybe set aside a little extra in case they ever get sick. Some hospitals may not be as expensive as others for you, but if they get any support whatsoever from public money, well, I am afraid your bill might be a little steep, so plan ahead.

Do you get mail? I recommend you cancel this. And of course you can still drive your car to most places, but you will bo confined to certain roads and certain lanes. But there again, if you plan ahead it shouldn't be a problem. You are still a citizen of American, so you still get police protection, but that 9-11 call is not free. Keep some money in your wallet.

Since you won't have the same taxpayer card that those who volunteer for the tax program have, there will need to be certain calculations figured into the price you pay for some commodities. Just things like groceries, and medicines, and fuel and the like. There may be some things where you will pay the same price as the tax volunteers, just as long as those goods aren't sent to the stores by way of federal highways and such.

So I figure this should be a very popular program for many Republicans. A lot of them don't watch tv much or use the internet or need cancer treatment medications, so it won't be a big loss for them. Plus how hard it is to make a candle or chop wood, as long as it is on your own property that is (Does any Republican really need to visit Yellowstone anyway?)

So Opt Out today. Your Utopian dream has come true. Hoorah Hoorah!


Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Phage0070, posted 02-21-2011 3:01 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 28 by Theodoric, posted 02-21-2011 9:33 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12680
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 25 of 350 (605591)
02-21-2011 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Coyote
02-21-2011 12:10 AM


Re: no brainer?
The Irish are our friends. They send us Celtic Woman.

The Saudis are not our friends. They send us mosques preaching sharia, and wanting to implement it here.

The Irish are just more insidious. When we let our guard down, they'll force us into strange acts of leprechaun-worship.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Coyote, posted 02-21-2011 12:10 AM Coyote has not yet responded

slevesque
Member (Idle past 1055 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 26 of 350 (605595)
02-21-2011 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Dr Adequate
02-21-2011 12:02 AM


Re: no brainer?
We can sell you more of our Hydroelectricity, if you want
This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-21-2011 12:02 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 350 (605598)
02-21-2011 3:01 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Bolder-dash
02-21-2011 12:29 AM


Re: Opt Out Plan
And somehow you have missed the biggest part of the bill: Military defense.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Bolder-dash, posted 02-21-2011 12:29 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 4521
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 28 of 350 (605623)
02-21-2011 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Bolder-dash
02-21-2011 12:29 AM


Re: Opt Out Plan
Bolder I have to commend you on this post and the previous one. You have made a very clear argument showing the ridiculousness of the tea party and anti-tax movement.

It is very clear that the republicans want to move to a fee based society. When everything has a fee and is privatized there is more places to make profit. Also, it is obvious that the republican, tea party groups do not view anything long term. Feeing the middle class to death is not a long term viable plan for an economy. As this continues the wealthy will be come a smaller and smaller group.

It seems to me that the anti-tax people live in a fantasy world. They refuse to see the benefits they receive from taxes and also it seems a lot of them are not wealthy but are damn sure that one day they will be. They are a bunch of wannabe's.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Bolder-dash, posted 02-21-2011 12:29 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 15828
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 29 of 350 (605628)
02-21-2011 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by crashfrog
02-20-2011 11:10 PM


Re: no brainer?
Hi crashfrog,

Why do we suddenly have to balance the budget in the middle of a recession?

I agree with you on this. The point being that if people are going to talk about budget cuts, then I would say that this should be top of the list.

Why not balance it in the middle of a roaring economy, one with high growth and low unemployment ...

Like we had under Clinton, when Gore worked on simplifying a lot of government systems and reduced their costs?

Like Bush threw away and then dumped more when he invaded Iraq on false pretenses?

We need to reduce the military budget, as it controls half of the budget dollars, and that is too much now and too much in times of prosperity.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by crashfrog, posted 02-20-2011 11:10 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 15828
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 30 of 350 (605629)
02-21-2011 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Bolder-dash
02-21-2011 12:00 AM


Re: no brainer?
Thanks Bolder-dash.

How about a public vote annually to determine his salary?

Great idea - all benefits and perks (health care, pensions, etc) for all elected officials should be approved by the public that pays the taxes for these things. This could be done as part of the existing election process, when other bills etc are usually on the ballots.

The problem Republicans have with cutting military spending, aside from the obvious fact that Republicans like guns, and military brute, and force as a high priority diplomatic solution, is that when you spend money on bombs, you aren't giving money to someone who they feel doesn't deserve it.

But if you take that money out of the budget -- or better still, use it to pay down the debt -- then it isn't going to anyone else.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Bolder-dash, posted 02-21-2011 12:00 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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