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Author Topic:   How do "novel" features evolve?
intellen
Member (Idle past 4386 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 05-23-2011


Message 151 of 314 (660113)
04-21-2012 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Dr Adequate
04-21-2012 3:41 AM


Re: Intelligence
Dr Adequate,
Do you know the meaning of "intelligence" in science? Can you show by simple experiment about "intelligence"?
OR
Please, define intelligence in scientific way?
Is instinct intelligence??

Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of the new Intelligent Design .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2012 3:41 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
intellen
Member (Idle past 4386 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 05-23-2011


Message 166 of 314 (660142)
04-21-2012 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by dwise1
04-21-2012 5:01 AM


Re: how populations evolve - when is it "novel"?
dwise1 POSTED: Yes! Precisely! Exactly what we have been telling you over and over again!
Individuals do not evolve, but rather populations do!
Here is a very important resource for you to actually learn something: Introduction to Evolutionary Biology: Version 2. And here's a very important quote from that very important resource:
quote: The process of evolution can be summarized in three sentences: Genes mutate. [gene: a hereditary unit] Individuals are selected. Populations evolve.
Yeah, I knew that there are changes BUT those changes cannot produce new species! Is that hard to understand? I knew that population is composed of individuals. I knew that population changes but they don't change to become new species.
Yes, gene mutates. But let me get straight: If gen1 has the following traits, t1, t2, t3, t4, t5, t6, t7, t8, t9, t10..., then, the gen2 may get the same traits in a mixed order: t10, t2, t6, t4, t5, t1, t7, t8, t9, t3,...and the third generation, gen3, may get another mixed traits...but the gene cannot mutate traits that are NOT present in gen1!
But why do we see changes? We see changes because genes are being mixed up. Say, t1 is a genius trait, t1 can be present in gen1, but it will never be present in gen2, but it doesn't mean that gen2 has no t1 trait! It is very simple! To quickly jump to another species is a fantasy!
You see, ToE is messing up science. You messes science!
Please read it and learn it. Then maybe you will be able to say something meaningful about evolution. Because so far all you've been able to mutter is complete nonsense that demonstrates beyond a doubt that you have absolutely no clue what evolution is.
I think you should be reading and using a critical thinking. Don't just say, "Amen, Darwin, you are right!"

Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of the new Intelligent Design .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by dwise1, posted 04-21-2012 5:01 AM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by RAZD, posted 04-21-2012 1:01 PM intellen has not replied
 Message 189 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2012 3:18 PM intellen has replied

  
intellen
Member (Idle past 4386 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 05-23-2011


Message 191 of 314 (660171)
04-21-2012 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Dr Adequate
04-21-2012 3:18 PM


Re: how populations evolve - when is it "novel"?
To: Dr Adequate
This is so far from actual genetics that it's not even clear what it is you're trying to be wrong about. It's as though someone was to pretend to be knowledgeable about sports by saying: "The second baseman was caught leg before wicket, so the goalie was awarded a slam-dunk" ... it's not merely that this is a description of something that never happened, it's not even a description of something.
Perhaps you should begin by learning the meaning of the word "trait". A trait is a possible variant of a character: e.g. if the character is eye color, blue eyes would be a trait; if the character is whether or not one has earlobes, then having earlobes is a trait.
Now, obviously it make no sense to talk of the order of traits, there's no difference between having blue eyes and earlobes and having earlobes and blue eyes. The idea of "the same traits in a mixed order" doesn't mean anything.
I knew that. That is why I had given you example so that you will know where you will be using that word "trait" because ToE loves to make explanation without any realistic application.
Let us go back to our example:
If generation1 (gen1) had the following traits as a whole (take note: as a whole)
t1, t2, t3, t4, t5...., t100, (from t1 until t100)
then gen1 will reproduce the same traits to gen2, but since there is no "perfect clone", then, the traits will be mixed up in arrangement, like this
t3, t50, 67, 80, ....t1...(the same complete genes/traits with gen1).
That is how we see "changes" that was incorrectly labeled by ToE as "evolution" to the point of making new species.
The problem is: when gen1 reproduces gen2, will t200 or t500, new traits, will be formed? No! Since how could genes mutates if that t200 or t500 is not present in gen1?
You see, ToE is messing up science and making fantasy.
Am I rght?
Edited by intellen, : No reason given.
Edited by intellen, : No reason given.

Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of the new Intelligent Design .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2012 3:18 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by JonF, posted 04-21-2012 3:47 PM intellen has not replied
 Message 193 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2012 3:48 PM intellen has replied

  
intellen
Member (Idle past 4386 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 05-23-2011


Message 195 of 314 (660176)
04-21-2012 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Dr Adequate
04-21-2012 3:48 PM


Re: how populations evolve - when is it "novel"?
Again, you're not exactly painting a picture. What, in the real world, do you want to correspond to the "arrangement" of the traits?
Instead of a hundred traits, let's consider two --- the two I've mentioned. Let t1 = having blue eyes, and t2 = having earlobes.
What is the difference between the "arrangement" t1, t2 and the "arrangement" t2, t1?
OK, let us use your scenario.
Yes, that is a change! From this combination: t1, t2 to this combination, t2, t1...that is exactly a change.
If gen1 has t1, and t2, then, gen2 will also must have t1, and t2, too. But since there is no perfect clone, then, t2, t1 is a possibility since we have only two traits. And that is not evolution. That is only a change. In my own discovery, I called it "interrelation."
So, where is evolution and where is mutation? Do you imply that t3 will be formed? That is a fantasy! OK, I'll play. BUT you need to be sure that you know the meaning of "inheritable traits" because this will be the biggest blow to ToE.
How can you show that t3 will be formed by mutation or evolution?

Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of the new Intelligent Design .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2012 3:48 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2012 4:06 PM intellen has replied
 Message 199 by RAZD, posted 04-21-2012 4:57 PM intellen has not replied

  
intellen
Member (Idle past 4386 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 05-23-2011


Message 197 of 314 (660179)
04-21-2012 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Dr Adequate
04-21-2012 4:06 PM


Re: how populations evolve - when is it "novel"?
Please answer the question. What is the real-world difference corresponding to the different "arrangement"? If one generation has blue eyes and earlobes, and the next generation has earlobes and blue eyes, then what "change" has occurred?
The change that occurred is the arrangement of its location. That is definitely a change. (Remember that there are only 2 traits in our example). That what we see in the real world in all living organisms, from gen1 to gen2.
We can watch new traits arising, but that of course involves looking at the real world rather than the muddled mess of verbiage in your head, and so you may have overlooked it.
So, you are implying that t3 is arising even though it is not present in gen1? Am I right? So, meaning, the "inheritable traits, say t1, t2 of gen1 to gen2 is wrong?
How can you explain that when ToE claimed that inheritable traits is part of evolution?
Maybe you can enlighten me up since until now ToE and you is messing science.

Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of the new Intelligent Design .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2012 4:06 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2012 4:55 PM intellen has not replied

  
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