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Author Topic:   Importance of Original Sin
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1971 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 406 of 1198 (710024)
11-01-2013 2:52 AM
Reply to: Message 405 by Theodoric
10-31-2013 10:12 AM


Re: C.S.Lewis perspective
It should because your arguments are just words strung together that you think sound impressive. You present Lewis and others as experts, but all they give are their beliefs and feelings without anything to back up their assertions. Lewis is a mess of logical fallacies. Try searching CS Lewis logical fallacies and read. I suggest using Duckduckgo. No ads, no tracking, anonymous
You waste pixels, that I why I dislike your posts.
C.S. Lewis gives no reasons for his conversion from Atheism to faith in Christ and theism ?
Your eyes must be sown shut with a needle and thread.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by Theodoric, posted 10-31-2013 10:12 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by AZPaul3, posted 11-01-2013 8:11 AM jaywill has not replied
 Message 408 by Theodoric, posted 11-01-2013 8:59 AM jaywill has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8564
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 407 of 1198 (710034)
11-01-2013 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by jaywill
11-01-2013 2:52 AM


Re: C.S.Lewis perspective
C.S. Lewis gives no reasons for his conversion from Atheism to faith in Christ and theism ?
Oh, jaywill, yet again?
That is not what Theo said, implied or even hinted and has absolutely no bearing on the topic being discussed.
You really cannot jump in with just any off the wall fluff nugget that pops into your head. The "Lewis" thing here is on his view of "Original Sin" not the efficacy of his conversion.
Jaywill, my man, you have to be on program first then you can stick your foot in your mouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by jaywill, posted 11-01-2013 2:52 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 408 of 1198 (710039)
11-01-2013 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by jaywill
11-01-2013 2:52 AM


Re: C.S.Lewis perspective
C.S. Lewis gives no reasons for his conversion from Atheism to faith in Christ and theism ?
Have I said such a thing? If all you have is a strawman why do you even bother posting?
Your eyes must be sown shut with a needle and thread.
Now that is just plain stupid. Please, if you don't have anything that responds what I actually posted, please don't post.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by jaywill, posted 11-01-2013 2:52 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by jaywill, posted 11-01-2013 1:22 PM Theodoric has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1971 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 409 of 1198 (710095)
11-01-2013 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by Theodoric
11-01-2013 8:59 AM


Re: C.S.Lewis perspective
I responded to this general observation -
You present Lewis and others as experts, but all they give are their beliefs and feelings without anything to back up their assertions.
Generally speaking, this is not true.
C.S. Lewis was a cogent reasoner.
Believe as you wish. I see no need to argue about it - an Oxford Professor who gives assertions with no backing up arguments ?
C.S. Lewis on Free Will https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrw8FitGkXA
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Theodoric, posted 11-01-2013 8:59 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by Theodoric, posted 11-02-2013 10:31 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 410 of 1198 (710154)
11-02-2013 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 409 by jaywill
11-01-2013 1:22 PM


Re: C.S.Lewis perspective
I responded to this general observation -
No you didn't.
an Oxford Professor who gives assertions with no backing up arguments ?
More fallacy?
Did you do what I suggested and research Lewis?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by jaywill, posted 11-01-2013 1:22 PM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by Phat, posted 11-02-2013 10:39 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18349
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 411 of 1198 (710157)
11-02-2013 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 410 by Theodoric
11-02-2013 10:31 AM


Re: C.S.Lewis perspective
I certainly see no experts around here...the sheer hubris of you guys who think that "providing support" even begins to have any authority at settling an issue! The Scientific Method is no trump card in regards to faith and belief.
The very fact that you are unimpressed by anyone seems to suggest that a moron who understood science would be able to earn respect through providing support...as if humans even have any...all it seems is that humans have cobbled together "support" that refutes scriptural authority...which is insulting to me.
as far as support goes... I don't personally operate with the assumption that we have "facts", but we do have information with intent.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by Theodoric, posted 11-02-2013 10:31 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by Theodoric, posted 11-02-2013 11:25 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 413 by ringo, posted 11-02-2013 12:14 PM Phat has replied
 Message 435 by Theodoric, posted 11-05-2013 9:35 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 412 of 1198 (710158)
11-02-2013 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 411 by Phat
11-02-2013 10:39 AM


Re: C.S.Lewis perspective
So you didn't bother searching CS Lewis logical fallacies. You certainly don't want to learn anything that might threaten your belief set.
moron
Well if he provided support being a moron would be unlikely and irrelevant.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Phat, posted 11-02-2013 10:39 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 413 of 1198 (710163)
11-02-2013 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by Phat
11-02-2013 10:39 AM


Re: C.S.Lewis perspective
Phat writes:
The Scientific Method is no trump card in regards to faith and belief.
Why not?
Are you claiming that faith and belief trump evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Phat, posted 11-02-2013 10:39 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by Phat, posted 11-02-2013 12:56 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18349
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


(1)
Message 414 of 1198 (710168)
11-02-2013 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 413 by ringo
11-02-2013 12:14 PM


Beliefs vs Evidence
Ringo writes:
Are you claiming that faith and belief trump evidence?
Im claiming that there is not evidence for everything that is true or real in life.
Im also claiming that the evidence may be subjective and internal...not replicable so as to satisfy others. They will have to find their own evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by ringo, posted 11-02-2013 12:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by ringo, posted 11-02-2013 1:08 PM Phat has replied
 Message 416 by AZPaul3, posted 11-02-2013 4:55 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 415 of 1198 (710169)
11-02-2013 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 414 by Phat
11-02-2013 12:56 PM


Re: Beliefs vs Evidence
Phat writes:
Im also claiming that the evidence may be subjective and internal...not replicable so as to satisfy others. They will have to find their own evidence.
As long as you agree that objective evidence does trump faith and belief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Phat, posted 11-02-2013 12:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 417 by jaywill, posted 11-03-2013 7:34 AM ringo has replied
 Message 418 by Phat, posted 11-03-2013 12:00 PM ringo has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8564
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 416 of 1198 (710178)
11-02-2013 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 414 by Phat
11-02-2013 12:56 PM


Re: Beliefs vs Evidence
Im claiming that there is not evidence for everything that is true or real in life.
Depends on how you look at it. If something is "real" in real life then there has to be evidence upon which to base this realty. If there is no such evidence then its "truth" value or its "reality" is held indeterminate. Where religionists get into trouble is when they insist on a "truth" for which there is ample evidence against.
Im also claiming that the evidence may be subjective and internal...not replicable so as to satisfy others.
How does this differ from wishful thinking, blind obedience to one's acculturation or dementia?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Phat, posted 11-02-2013 12:56 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1971 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 417 of 1198 (710205)
11-03-2013 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by ringo
11-02-2013 1:08 PM


Re: Beliefs vs Evidence
As long as you agree that objective evidence does trump faith and belief.
How come the most powerful personality in history - Jesus of Nazareth, talked SO MUCH about faith and believing ?
I think He was up front and frank about the real situation of human beings - Eventually you are going to put your "faith" in someone.
I think Jesus Christ among all wise men cut to the central issue the deepest.
We are all going to eventually put our trust in someone at last - period.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by ringo, posted 11-02-2013 1:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by ringo, posted 11-03-2013 1:07 PM jaywill has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18349
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 418 of 1198 (710224)
11-03-2013 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 415 by ringo
11-02-2013 1:08 PM


Re: Beliefs vs Evidence
As long as you agree that objective evidence does trump faith and belief.
Jaywill has a point. If objective evidence was so important, why didn't Jesus mention it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by ringo, posted 11-02-2013 1:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by jar, posted 11-03-2013 12:12 PM Phat has replied
 Message 422 by ringo, posted 11-03-2013 1:12 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 419 of 1198 (710227)
11-03-2013 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 418 by Phat
11-03-2013 12:00 PM


Re: Beliefs vs Evidence
Too funny, like jaywill you really haven't read the Bible have you?
Remember Jesus on the riverwalk? Jesus raising the dead? Jesus turning water into wine?
If you actually read the Bible you find that in the stories Jesus is constantly doing, demonstrating, providing evidence.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Phat, posted 11-03-2013 12:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 420 by Phat, posted 11-03-2013 12:35 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18349
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 420 of 1198 (710229)
11-03-2013 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by jar
11-03-2013 12:12 PM


Re: Beliefs vs Evidence
If you actually read the Bible you find that in the stories Jesus is constantly doing, demonstrating, providing evidence.
And thats what we want to see happen now. This whole waste of time on figuring out if God is real is ludicrous. God will use us ourselves to provide evidence...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by jar, posted 11-03-2013 12:12 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 423 by jar, posted 11-03-2013 2:49 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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