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Author | Topic: Open letter to all Atheists. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
The problem is everywhere with that argument, but we can start in Alpha Centauri. Obviously you must think that the laws of identity and non-contradiction do not apply out there, since humans have yet to arrive on the scene, is that right?
Shirley you don't think the laws of logic were constructed by humans do you?
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined:
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Then you know that your point is wrong. If you can have evolution without atheism, then evolution and atheism are separable. No, those people are just inconsistent, that's all. As Christians, they're in effect saying that God was either mistaken, or lying, when He said that He created everything in six days and all creatures were created after their kind.
But you could in principle have an atheist who denied evolution. True, if I live long enough, I suppose I might run into that. Again though, that would simply be another example of inconsistency with one's own worldview.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
That's right, I'm not really here. I'm just stardust in your dreams.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
I'll let Richard Dawkins explain my point then. This is probably the only time I'd actually admit to agreeing with him btw.
Man vs. God Richard Dawkins writes: Where does that leave God? The kindest thing to say is that it leaves him with nothing to do, and no achievements that might attract our praise, our worship or our fear. Evolution is God's redundancy notice, his pink slip. But we have to go further. A complex creative intelligence with nothing to do is not just redundant. A divine designer is all but ruled out by the consideration that he must at least as complex as the entities he was wheeled out to explain. God is not dead. He was never alive in the first place. Now before you welcome me to the club and hand me my atheist coffee mug, I should point out that the only point I agree with Dawkins on is the one re: the incompatibility of evolution and theism. It's either one or the other and I think you know which one I'm leaning towards - the one with the better dental plan of course.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
No, they're saying that the Genesis story is not accurate about how God (allegedly) created everything. Maybe as an atheist you can say that, but not as a Christian. As a Christian, you have to acknowledge that the Bible (including Genesis) is the inerrant word of God. Thus a Christian cannot claim that the Genesis story is inaccurate. To do so would ultimately indict God himself as flawed (capable of making mistakes). Again - as an atheist you can say that, but a Christian cannot.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
He'd also need to add: "Sorry about that Creation-in-6-days thing. I really threw you literalists a curve on that didn't I? And the after-their-own-kind bit, fuhgeddaboudit."
You deprecate the intelligence of a Creator. I know you don't believe in one, but if you grant for argument's sake that one exists, then does it seem logical to you that a Creator could be imperfect? If there are imperfections, then it would stand to reason there's room for improvement, thus God as the ultimate one-stop-shop Creator must be perfect, not imperfect (since by definition there can be nothing higher than Him). If God is perfect, then He cannot make mistakes. For evolution and God to be true simultaneously, God must have made a mistake (in His Bible). But He can't make mistakes, if He exists - so we're back to the same premise: either evolution is true, or God is true. But we don't get to claim both.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
If I have a boolean variable, assign it TRUE, it can't then at the same time become a walnut. That would violate the law of identity, and has nothing to do with human language.
If a comet is passing through the Alpha Centauri system, it's not also at the same time a school of plankton being devoured by a blue whale. Again, nothing to do with human language. I know it might seem like there's a radon leak in my house, by the way I'm writing, but I'm trying to illustrate what logical violations would look like. For a world to exist, without logic (i.e. before it evolved) would be nothing less than an Alice in Wonderland reality.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
{gif graphic deleted. I don't know about for others, but for me it took a long time to load and even then didn't display correctly. So, everyone please stop doing such things. Or something like that. - Adminnemooseus}
Edit: It was mildly dubious. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Delete problem .gif file of very dubious merit. Edited by faceman, : Level of dubiousness
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined:
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Not all Christians are inerrantists. And not all cops follow the law.
The Bible never claims to be the inerrant word of God. It does claim to be God's word, however. God cannot be God if He is errant. That would make Him less than perfect and allow for improvement, which cannot be true if He is the ultimate supreme being (which could not be improved upon). If God is inerrant, then so is His word.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
Could a comet in a distant solar system and a school of plankton here on Earth exist without humans (and thus our language)?
The answer is of course yes. Neither event requires our presence nor our language. Now could both of those events occur at the exact same time, and yet somehow be the same event? I don't see how. Spock would not approve. To put it another way, say you look back in time, 10 billion years (before humans, but after the "big bang"). You spot an asteroid tumbling through space. At the exact same time, could it also NOT be an asteroid NOT tumbling through space?
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
Evolution does not comport with a Creator. To do so, would require the Creator to be fallible, which would disqualify Him as God (since the Creator must be perfect).
Therefore evolution is not compatible with God. If evolution is true, atheism must follow (as there could be no God). They go hand in hand.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
Logic doesn't "make" anything. It is simply a set of absolute laws.
Yes I think I must be missing your point, because up until now it seems you believe logic is a construct of the human mind.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
No, that would be John McRage (aka McCain).
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
If there is a God Then it would be foolish to assume that all of the thoughts and ways of a Supreme Being could be known by our limited (and not so supreme) minds. Also, if there is a God (I say that for your benefit of course), and we meet Him at roughly the same time, give me a warning before you start asking for apologies would you? I'd like to take a few steps back first.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
Could you show me an example in C# or SQL?
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