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Author | Topic: How do you define the word Evolution? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
CRR writes:
My way is MORE than what you say your Designer would do. How is that "reducing" God?
Why? Because you would have done it that way? I won't reduce God to your level, or mine.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
As Sarfati says in "the Genesis Account", p283, Sarfati is the man who will swear to anything. If you've got another source, let me know. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
CRR writes: Taq, as I have shown in other posts there ARE criteria for identifying the bounds of the Kinds. Those criteria were immediately thrown out when it was said that there could be a lack of interfertility between species within a kind.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
The more sensible approach for a designer with limited means is to copycat. But for a GOD, why would He limit Himself? Why not use His imagination?
Which is the more sensible approach? ... invent a different system for each one of the millions of species of organisms on earth, or use the same system for each one? Dredge writes:
Maybe you can answer my question about the biological zeppelins. What idea did we borrow from nature there?
But on the other hand, humans have a long history of borrowing ideas from nature to build stuff. Would humans have ever thought of flight if they hadn't seen birds doing it?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Dredge writes: Which is the more sensible approach? ... invent a different system for each one of the millions of species of organisms on earth, or use the same system for each one? For a being who is all knowing, all powerful, and who lives outside of time and space, the most sensible approach is to start from scratch each time. The only reason why reusing systems makes sense is to save time and resources, both of which this supposed designer had an infinite supply of. Also, why limit yourself to a nested hierarchy? If you can make species that are half reptile and half mammal, why not half mammal and half bird, or half ape and half dog? Why is it that the only mixture of characteristics we see are those that evolution would produce, and not the millions of different combinations a designer could make. Human designers aren't limited to a nested hierarchy. Things like cars, buildings, paintings, and pottery don't fall into a nested hierarchy. I am not aware of any single designer who was limited to a nested hierarchy, so why do we see a nested hierarchy if design is true? It makes no sense why we would only see the pattern of shared features that evolution would create if design were true.
But on the other hand, humans have a long history of borrowing ideas from nature to build stuff. Would humans have ever thought of flight if they hadn't seen birds doing it? Airplanes don't fall into a nested hierarchy. Birds do.
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CRR Member (Idle past 2271 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
CRR writes: Taq, as I have shown in other posts there ARE criteria for identifying the bounds of the Kinds. Those criteria were immediately thrown out when it was said that there could be a lack of interfertility between species within a kind. Not at all. Within the cats not every species can successfully breed with all the other species, but the chain of hybrids indicates that all are part of the one kind. Hybridisation is not the only criteria for identifying the bounds of the Kinds. I can give you some links to the subject if you're willing to read them.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tangle writes:
If there is no connection between 1 and 2, then in effect, you are saying evolution is not evidence of evolution. Now that really does sound like both bad science and bad logic.
This is both bad science and bad logic.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Ringo writes:
Flight - the idea for which came from birds. zepplins Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Taq writes:
Asking why the Creator created according to nested hierarchies is as pointless as asking why the Creator made the sky blue and grass green ... or why he created apes that share 98% of their DNA with humans. why limit yourself to a nested hierarchy? But if you really need to know, ask him when you met him face to face. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Dredge writes: If there is no connection between 1 and 2, then in effect, you are saying evolution is not evidence of evolution. Now that really does sound like both bad science and bad logic. Of course there's a connection between the two, but you're going out of your way to misunderstand what it is. How old is the earth? Why are you ignoring this question?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tangle writes:
You've gone from calling it "bad science and bad logic" to now admitting there is a connection. Interesting.
Of course there is a connection between the twoHow old is the earth? I believe I've already answered this question, but to reiterate: Somewhere betweem 5778 years and a very long time indeed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Dredge writes: You've gone from calling it "bad science and bad logic" to now admitting there is a connection. Interesting. If you remove your default defensive 'nothing shall pass' position and re-read what I said, you might understand the point. At the moment you've got all power committed to your biblical shields.
Somewhere betweem 5778 years and a very long time indeed. Well that explains a lot, you're actually a closet YEC. That's the equivalent of a flat earther.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
CRR writes: Within the cats not every species can successfully breed with all the other species, but the chain of hybrids indicates that all are part of the one kind. If links in that chain go extinct, would it produce cat species that can no longer interbreed with other cat species?
Hybridisation is not the only criteria for identifying the bounds of the Kinds. I can give you some links to the subject if you're willing to read them. I would prefer that you discuss them in your own words. I would be most interested in the genetics of determining "created kinds". Edited by Taq, : No reason given. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Dredge writes: Asking why the Creator created according to nested hierarchies is as pointless as asking why the Creator made the sky blue and grass green ... or why he created apes that share 98% of their DNA with humans. That leaves evolution as the only explanation for why we see a nested hierarchy.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Dredge writes: If there is no connection between 1 and 2, then in effect, you are saying evolution is not evidence of evolution. Now that really does sound like both bad science and bad logic. Observing species evolving now is not direct evidence that species evolved in the past. That should be obvious. What you need is evidence of natural selection that occurred in the past, and that evidence exists in the field of comparative genomics. When you compare genomes between species you can test for the signal of natural selection in their genomes in the form of Ka/Ks ratios, conservation of sequence, and phylogenetic signals. You know, stuff you have admitted you don't understand.
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