Fossil Sorting in the Great Flood Part 2

I'm new to the coversation but I think I can help my creationist side with new information.
Nosyned makes points that must be answered by the thinking creationist.
First to clear up any misunderstanding. Creationists believe most, not all, fossils were created by the processes at the time of the flood. So simple fossils in any one area just represent that area before the flood.
As now different kinds for different areas.
This sequence matter therefore is not a problem. There are no sequences. Just local area fossilization.
The sequences seen are in fact interpretations by evolutionists based on thier rejection of a sudden general crushing fossilization event.
All rocks and fossils were created at once. Not one type of rock at one time with fossils and then another rock with fossils at another time.
In those rare cases where mammals are on top of Dinosaurs etc this just represents a post flood fossil event.
Nosyned is right that rabbits and dinosaur fossils were not mixed together for they did not live together. Rabbits were post flood mammalian explosian and never lived with dinosaurs.
It was a different world before the flood. As Noah was instructed to bring 7 pairs of clean animals and two pairs of unclean therefore signifying a change in faunal domination.
There is no problem for creationists in fossil stratas. As history shows it is evolutionists who must change thier explanations after each fossil expedition.
We must all remember that this rock/fossil evidence is just a pile of stuff in a field. And the humans make interpretations.All the best
Robert Byers
Toronto, Ontario

Thanks all especially Nosyned who replied to my 2 cents.
To Nosyned and to help the other evolutionists understand the creationist anaysis of past events here goes.I was asked to breckdown the rock sequences. The famous cretaceous/teritary (Spelling uge) line in the geological columne is the flood line. The teritary sequences are post flood representing the rare occurances of rock solidification. As before that the flood created great rock chaos. There are no rock creation before the flood except the instant creation by God in a day (probably).All interpretations of plate teutonics etc were from the year of the flood. Also the creatures fossilized within these rocks done exclusively during this event.The patterns seen in geology are easily and more plausibly explained as the result of the great and sudden overthrow of the earth by the flood and the land separation which it caused which we accept and incoorporate in our science models.Nosyned has rightly said the interpretations of a few creationists about animal fossil sequence being explained by who could run better are erroneous. Creationists don't need such unlikely theories.
This has been an error of my fellow creationists.
They simply misunderstand the pre and post world had different faunas dominating the planet.Later all Robert Byers

Thanks all for your input. There were many folks so I will just answer questions without mentioning names.There would be no human fossils from the flood as they occupied a small area and the process leaves little room for fossil survival.Insects,fishes,reptiles vegatation are the same now as back then with only extinctions along. As for Mammals well they simply occupied restricted areas of the globe and so less likely fossilized. It was a different demagraphic distribution as the Bible hints at.
Of coarse,yes, all kinds before the flood survived the flood. Againd a different distribution of diversity.No Upper or lower creataceous boundaries. THe layering of Rock kinds is a human interpretation of Rocks in the field. In fact the only boundaries are those separated by events. Like with a layered cake. The layered cake is made instantly not one layer everyother week.yes also one Rock sequence before the flood. There would be no geological activity until the flood.
Also Above the K-T line is very little rock development as it would be the post flood world that created that rock./ Seldom and mostly volcanic. Likewise fossils in those rare areas are of the post flood world.The creationist model can not be beat and all questions conquored.
It is in line with revealed religion of the most siccessful people in history. And so only prohibition keeps us from dominating the interpretation of past events. Perhaps this will soon change.

Ok here comes the answerman. First to Loudmouth the Bible says clean and unclean animals were in a 7:2 ratio. Suggesting the post flood world was too be different from the pre-flood world. Mammals would rule ,as before the others like dinosaurs did. Faunal demagraphic redistribution.To Mike King ( by the way welcome) there is no evidence of long geologic history only evidence of history and then human interpretation.
The trip you offer would only show the same thing as my backyard. Flat or folded or crushed rock creations. All explained, and more plausibly, by events and not slow development.
Look at any rock, almost, and it shows evidence of sudden destruction.
Flat rocks show evidence of uniform creation that dos not occur today anywhere because it does not happen. It takes a great event.
You say offer experiments. Well since you say yours is the dominate position accepted today. YOU FIRST. However you can't nor I since geology is not a scientific study but a historical study not open to testing.
Thank you all Rob

I have answered about mammals in the fossil record. It was not a mammailian world and they were simply in restricted geographical areas. Also there are small mammals in the record that could survive the world of the reptiles but again of coarse not the big ones.
Again there was no pre-flood rock layering just the original rock.
What is observed about rock layering is clearly either from the flood itself (sedimentary) or from the convulsive separation of the continents (plate tecktonics)that creationists accept. (Igneous and metamorphic) Afte that minor episodes mostly from volcanoes. . Yes the K-T boundary separates the geology of the flooded world and after that.

Anything above the k-t line will be the rare case where volcanic action produced new rock with indeed captureing and fossilizing new post flood creatures. Like vesuvius. any missing messages between here and 246 were edited out as copies of this post - The QueenThis message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 07-10-2004 02:52 PM

Sorry about this repeated message my computer is not working as it should and I've not been getting my posts thru and then I did. I don't know how to correct it so please ignore or take the thought to heart (just kidding)

No problem. Again as with all things fossilized it matters how prevelent they are. Grasses and mammals simply lived in restricked areas while another evirorment dominated. As is the case today in North America where secluded places have the remains of the glaciel world that once dominated but not these plants only survive where the invaders could not come.

Jesus is my savior and lord also and in North America evangelical Christians believe the Lord in his often reference to the truth of scripture including a reference to the days of Noah thus stamping Noah and his story as true if it needed to be said again. I don't mean to question you believing the Lord. Many Christians of the true faith don't believe Noah etc happened. But most do.
You brought up the example in John about one third of stars falling to earth. Well this is probably the one place where the Bible indicates there was another event that afted the universe. After the fall but before the flood a cosmic war took place. This is where all the great meterities on earth and other planets and moons came from. Also why the galaxy has such mess everywhere. The stars did fall to earth perhaps most not connecting but many did and there is evidence always coming to light now. These meterites were later filled by sedimentary rocks from the flood. And since the meteors would of surely killed animals and yet there was no death before the flood then it must of been after the flood.I will in a few days be kayaking around an important geologic line in ontario. Where pre-cambrian rock just starts to be overlain by sedimentary rock just before glaciel mess joins in. A special place so I anm very aware Mike of Rock sequence and have read a great deal about to assure myself it fits with creationist models. It does and in fact shows evolutionist models to truly bne strange in thier efforts to bring great lengths of time to account for rock creation or manipulation.
All the best

Thanks Bill for your studied responce. Lets see what you got.First I kayak on an geological line here in Ontario where sedimentay meets igneous and metamorhic rock with no glaciel cover.
I am aware that all rock does not show destruction. I said almost and meant sedimentary.
Indeed all rock shows either being created by the collecting and pressurizing effect of the flood. Sed. or the destruction of continental drift (or I prefer Redeye)of strecting and crashing together.
Indeed the idea of any rock being created gradually is so opposite to anyone who actually observes it and explains the retreat of modern geologists to invoke themselves events. T(Though they try to expand the time needed)
Bill brings up about paleosoils. Creationists love paleosoils for they demonstrate that it was a sudden event that fossilized these soils and not gradual accumulation that geologists tried to say in the past.Finally once again it must be insisted geology that deals with past events is a subject of history and not science. Is history science? No. And yet historians do deal with evidence for acts and motives.
Historical geology by definiation can not test or be falsified for the evet can not be replicated. Thats why evolutionary geology can be assailed by creationists or anyone who has another idea of what happened. Science is not just another word for studied field. It is a process that is toprove its point.
All the best

Been kayaking the Canadian shield. Okay NN you bring a important point in the geologic record that historical geologists always misunderstand. The fossilization was a sudden event overwhelming areas on the planet. Therefore one would expect to find different creatures in different levels. For they represent colonies and evirorments frozen suddenly. One replitie colony done a hill three miles from another reptile colony higher up. This is a predictable thing from a creatiuonist model. While evolutionist geologists must scramble with unlikely senarieos about fossilization events separated by millions of years and yet in the same place.Also my bringing up about restricted areas is only to give a reasonable answer to why this and that is not found under the k-t line.
In fact the pre flood world was totally different from the PRE-FALL world that God created. This is traditional Christian/Protestant doctrine.

Yes I was on the canadian shield where sedimentary rock meets basement rock. Would you believe at only my present age of 39 did I find out everyone says trronnto (whatever). i though only I got it wrong.The Bible uses the word star for anthing in the universe unless otherwise stated. Even Mars would be a star. The stars coming to earth need not of hit in thier full size but just fragments of them. The point is however the Bible ancipapated the present finding of hugh holes on eath that must of been post-Fall and pre-Flood. And explains the choas in the universe at present because of a comic war.

Ok lets Rock. I did say Loudmouth that there is post floof rock creation fast or slow. Yet observed slow accumulation is only an observation of just that. Its speculation to say that all rock was created by that process. In fact as you said yourself such sediments must be moved, compacted and perhaps heated and pressurized. AMEN. Thats what creationists say. And this process was not winessed nor is witnessed. Therefore we can fit these rocks into a creationist model of fast events. The flood and continent breckups.
These rocks or any have never been witnessed in being formed. (Unless under very controlled conditions and probably not).
It more plausable for events then slow accumulation which is only a theory. And since untestable its not science.You compare forensics with geology. In forensics I bet the evidence came first leading to a line of investigation and later hypothesis.
In any case there should NOT be (And I mean it) any debate about what Science is and is not. Science in the public mind is about having proven sothing with tests. Otherwise all studies,like history and autorepair, would be sciences too. There not considered as such in Universities. In fact evolutionists will say to Creationists all the time our stuff is not science because testing etc are not done. And they are right. But origin subjects are all just history untill the scientific method is used. Thats why 50% of America don't except evolution.
All the best

Perhaps EDGE your dictionary was referring to the popular way sciece is seen and not the way Scientists actually define it.Always and I mean always evolutionists will say to creationists our stuff is not science because of lack of testability,falsability,predictability etc. And they are right.
Yet likewise historical geology, biology etc also are not science. Yet they assume the prestige thereof.
If systemized knowledge was all there is to being scientific then theology would be a part of science class.No there is obviously a misunderstanding as to what science is.
And there is no excuse on you folks part.
Science is science and history is history. Bothe prestigious and intellectual. But history can not claim the ceritude of science as it deals with past events and motives. And so this is how evolution sneaked its way into the science department.

Thanks Mike for your responce. I answered your point about the stars falling as a metaphore with my answer that this too has its place in verifiable origins studies. Yet you seem not persuaded still.Albert Einstein comment about religion has no merit as he was a Jew rejecting the Christian faith. Besides I see his achievments as minor in that he dealth in a simple field of science. It was still in a primitive state. It was however science as it was testable unlike evolution.Mike you must accept that America today is a more achieving and thus intelligent nation then Great Britain.
In short we know better. Evangelical Christians are at present aheah of Christians in your country in these areas of origins and British folk should seek out our work to see the great confidence with which we speak and our taking back society for the inclusion of the Bible creation truth. We are feared and our opponents hear the ground shaking. Perhaps you hear something over there in England and this is what got you interested. Well you ain't heard nothin' yet.
Regards Rob