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Author Topic:   News on Religion in Our Goverments
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 472
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 106 of 136 (635209)
09-27-2011 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by hooah212002
09-27-2011 7:49 PM


Re: I Shall Be Released
I thought church was one of the punishments. I would rather have a toothache.

Tactimatically speaking, the molecubes are out of alignment. -- S.Valley

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

You can't build a Time Machine without Weird Optics -- S. Valley


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by hooah212002, posted 09-27-2011 7:49 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by hooah212002, posted 09-27-2011 8:10 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply
 Message 108 by Omnivorous, posted 09-27-2011 8:23 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3135
Joined: 08-12-2009
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 107 of 136 (635210)
09-27-2011 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Tanypteryx
09-27-2011 8:06 PM


Re: I Shall Be Released
I thought church was one of the punishments.

To anyone who doesn't already belong (to quote jar) to that chapter of club christian, it is.

I would rather have a toothache.

As would I. I can hardly bear to sit through a funeral for a family member because of the preaching....


"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-27-2011 8:06 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3293
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 108 of 136 (635211)
09-27-2011 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Tanypteryx
09-27-2011 8:06 PM


Re: I Shall Be Released
Ouch...rather have a toothache? No way--toothaches are right there in your head and can't be ignored. They can make a strong man cry.

Having been marched off to church as a kid, I long ago learned to keep them out of my head altogether. I used to make up different, seditious words to the hymns and wait to see how long it took for the folks next to me to notice and slide down the pew...

I'd rather take the free out-of-jail card and seduce a church lady with my bad boy self.

As a card-carrying atheist and left-of-most general anarchist, of course, I deplore the program.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-27-2011 8:06 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Catholic Scientist, posted 09-28-2011 10:29 AM Omnivorous has responded
 Message 120 by Coragyps, posted 09-28-2011 6:33 PM Omnivorous has responded

    
Catholic Scientist
Member
Posts: 9254
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 109 of 136 (635254)
09-28-2011 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Omnivorous
09-27-2011 8:23 PM


Re: I Shall Be Released
I used to make up different, seditious words to the hymns and wait to see how long it took for the folks next to me to notice and slide down the pew...

Sitting in church in high school next to one of your fellow miscreants... everytime the congregation was supposed to say "Amen", he would say "Gay men"

Sometimes I still can't get that hilarity out of my head.

Or when it it was point out to me that the Pray Together book could be read to say "pray to get her"

Oh god I am so immature


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Omnivorous, posted 09-27-2011 8:23 PM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Omnivorous, posted 09-28-2011 6:04 PM Catholic Scientist has not yet responded

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 601 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 110 of 136 (635271)
09-28-2011 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by hooah212002
09-27-2011 7:44 PM


Re: Only in the South.....
However, as someone of NO belief, I find it repulsive that someone of that belief set could just go about their sunday ritual for "punishment".

I find it equally repulsive that you see it automatically as punishment for a crime, rather than rehabilitation. The jails and prisons are packed, I think rehabilitation, and reconciliation is a good idea, and there is no need to punish every non-violent offender.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by hooah212002, posted 09-27-2011 7:44 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by hooah212002, posted 09-28-2011 12:15 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3135
Joined: 08-12-2009
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 111 of 136 (635272)
09-28-2011 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Artemis Entreri
09-28-2011 12:13 PM


Re: Only in the South.....
rather than rehabilitation.

How is going to church rehabilitation for someone of a different faith? Would you be rehabilitated by going to a mosque, synagogue or whatever scientology has?


"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-28-2011 12:13 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-28-2011 12:26 PM hooah212002 has responded

    
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 601 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 112 of 136 (635277)
09-28-2011 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by hooah212002
09-28-2011 12:15 PM


Re: Only in the South.....
how is it punishment?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by hooah212002, posted 09-28-2011 12:15 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by hooah212002, posted 09-28-2011 2:17 PM Artemis Entreri has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 4948
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 113 of 136 (635279)
09-28-2011 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by fearandloathing
09-20-2011 5:12 PM


Re: Gay Ban LIfted
I can't say for certain, but I have always felt the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy was religiously motivated. Most people I have discussed anti-gay law/policies seem to fall back on religion as the reason it, homosexuality, is wrong and shouldn't be tolerated.

I think you are wrong here. Prior to DADT, the policy was that being gay got you kicked out of the military probably with something other than an honorable discharge. The military did ask you if you were gay when you signed up.

As odious as DADT was, it did allow some people to serve that would have been summarily booted or not even allowed to enter the service under prior policy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by fearandloathing, posted 09-20-2011 5:12 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by fearandloathing, posted 09-28-2011 12:45 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 115 by hooah212002, posted 09-28-2011 2:15 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 114 of 136 (635282)
09-28-2011 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by NoNukes
09-28-2011 12:32 PM


Re: Gay Ban LIfted
I wasn't aware of any policy prior to DADT, stupid on my part, I guess I always thought it was the only policy the military had. I never knew they used to ask people if they were homosexual.

Thanks for the info. My guess of it being religiously motivated was way off.


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by NoNukes, posted 09-28-2011 12:32 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3135
Joined: 08-12-2009
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 115 of 136 (635304)
09-28-2011 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by NoNukes
09-28-2011 12:32 PM


Re: Gay Ban LIfted
The military did ask you if you were gay when you signed up.

Funny they never asked me when I signed up. Must only apply to Navy and Air Force lol.


"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by NoNukes, posted 09-28-2011 12:32 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by fearandloathing, posted 09-28-2011 6:14 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3135
Joined: 08-12-2009
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 116 of 136 (635306)
09-28-2011 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Artemis Entreri
09-28-2011 12:26 PM


Re: Only in the South.....
Um because it fits the definition of punishment?

Punishment is the authoritative imposition of something negative or unpleasant on a person or animal in response to behavior deemed wrong by an individual or group.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-28-2011 12:26 PM Artemis Entreri has acknowledged this reply

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 5135
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 117 of 136 (635332)
09-28-2011 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Artemis Entreri
09-27-2011 6:45 PM


Re: Only in the South.....
I fail to see how this is an establishment of a religion.

Let's see. They are telling people that if they don't go to church that they will be sent to prison. Hmm, sounds like a clear violation to me.

Of course, it would be a lot more fun if church attendance was considered cruel and unusual punishment.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-27-2011 6:45 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3293
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 118 of 136 (635333)
09-28-2011 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Catholic Scientist
09-28-2011 10:29 AM


Re: I Shall Be Released
quote:
Rock of ages
Roll with me,
Let me rock
Eternally.

I don't remember what I sang for the second round, but it had something to do with sex--what didn't in those days?

Oh god I am so immature

Ah, sometimes being immature is just being not-old. I highly recommend it.

Just don't be mean.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Catholic Scientist, posted 09-28-2011 10:29 AM Catholic Scientist has not yet responded

    
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 119 of 136 (635337)
09-28-2011 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by hooah212002
09-28-2011 2:15 PM


Re: Gay Ban LIfted
quote:
There was no unified homosexuality policy across the various branches of the military until 1949. Before then, the various branches tended to court-martial personnel caught engaging in homosexual conduct for sodomy and issue them a dishonorable discharge. In 1940, psychiatrists Harry Stack Sullivan and Winfred Overholser formulated guidelines for psychiatric screening for military inductees. While both believed homosexuals should not be inducted, their proposal did not explicitly exclude them.[5] The United States Army Surgeon General's office issued a circular in 1941 that for the first time classified "homosexual proclivities" as disqualifying inductees for military service. The United States Navy and the Selective Service adopted similar exclusionary policies.[6] The Women's Army Corps adopted a similar policy in 1944.[7]

With the massive mobilization and deployment of troops for operations relating to World War II, it became impractical to convene court-martial boards for homosexual conduct offenses. Commanders instead issued blue discharges a form of administrative military discharge to gay personnel instead. The blue discharge, which was also issued disproportionately to African Americans, was neither honorable nor dishonorable. However, blue discharge holders faced difficulties in civilian life because the blue discharge carried with it a negative association. The Veterans Administration, denied blue-discharge veterans the benefits of the G.I. Bill as a general policy.[8] In 1944, a policy directive ordered that homosexuals were to be committed to military hospitals, examined by psychiatrists and discharged under Regulation 615-360, section 8.[9]

Blue discharges were discontinued in May 1947, with discharges that would formerly have been blue now falling under one of two new headings, "general" and "undesirable".[10] A general discharge was considered to be under honorable conditions which is distinct from an "honorable discharge" and an undesirable discharge was under conditions other than honorable which, again, is distinct from a "dishonorable discharge".[11] At the same time, however, the Army changed its regulations to ensure that homosexuals would not qualify for general discharges.[12] Under this system, a servicemember found to be homosexual but who has not committed any homosexual acts while in service would receive an undesirable discharge. Those who were found guilty of engaging in homosexual conduct were dishonorably discharged.[13]

In October 1949, the newly-consolidated Department of Defense standardized anti-homosexual regulations across all branches of the military: "Homosexual personnel, irrespective of sex, should not be permitted to serve in any branch of the Armed Forces in any capacity, and prompt separation of known homosexuals from the Armed Forces is mandatory." Read more...


It seems this was how it worked before DADT.

Funny they never asked me when I signed up. Must only apply to Navy and Air Force lol.

quote:
Don't ask, don't tell (DADT) is the common term for the policy restricting the United States military from efforts to discover or reveal closeted gay, lesbian, and bisexual service members or applicants, while barring those that are openly gay, lesbian, or bisexual from military service. LGBT people are allowed to serve but must do so without coming out or speaking about any homosexual relationships, including marriages or other familial attributes, while serving in the United States military. The policy was enacted in 1993 under the presidency of Bill Clinton.

I am guessing you joined after 1993?

Thanks NoNukes for making me learn a little history.


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by hooah212002, posted 09-28-2011 2:15 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by bluescat48, posted 09-29-2011 12:55 AM fearandloathing has responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5106
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 120 of 136 (635339)
09-28-2011 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Omnivorous
09-27-2011 8:23 PM


Re: I Shall Be Released
I used to make up different, seditious words to the hymns and wait to see how long it took for the folks next to me to notice and slide down the pew

"I was sinking deep in sin
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Omnivorous, posted 09-27-2011 8:23 PM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Omnivorous, posted 09-28-2011 7:22 PM Coragyps has responded

    
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