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Author | Topic: Importance of Original Sin | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
And God might ask you at the judgement, "Why did you hold back? Why didn't you trust me to take care of you? Why did you vote against the measures that would have taken care of you?" I don't trust the socialists either. That's why I need to save some back for my retirement. It's gray. There's no Bang! You're Saved! and you can coast to the end. It's flat-out all the way to the finish line.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
They did:
If that's what Jesus meant, that ALL of us are to give it all away, the entire Church would have known it and preached it from the beginning.quote: And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
NOBODY has suggested salvation by works alone. There are some pretty solid arguments denouncing salvation by works alone. Salvation is by faith. That much is plain. But faith is NOT just mouthing, "Lord! Lord!" The way God measures faith is by what you do for the least of His brethren. The branch that does not produce fruit is thrown into the fire. The arguments against works are entirely self-serving. Edited by ringo, : Clarification.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
The fact is that they did practice it. Again, if that was to be a rule for all believers it would have been preached to all of us all these centuries and practiced by all and it wasn't. Of course there's an easy copout for those who would rather grab all they can for themselves. That doesn't negate the principle.
Faith writes:
You make claims about what was "meant to be" but you don't back up your claims. Your denial is just self-serving. That's because you are pointing to particular specific events in the history of the Church that were not meant to be rules or commands, and imposing a false interpretation on them.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
You keep missing the point. Nobody has said that works have anything to do with saving us. But the works are the only measure of real faith. Without the works, you don't have real faith. If you hold back, like Ananias and Sapphira, you don't have real faith. Professions of faith mean nothing. Works are essential confirmations of faith but they HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SAVING US.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Well, the city is threatening to take it for back taxes. But I'm not the one who claims to be a follower of Jesus, am I? I don't need to practice what YOU should be preaching.
OK, Mr.Smartie Pants. Have you sold your house yet? Phat writes:
Not Ananias and Sapphira. They had your attitude and they were struck dead for it.
The people were as one, in communion. Phat writes:
Stop it. I have told you many times that I do NOT have a Utopian ideology. I'll take my chances with Jesus scolding me rather than fall for that Marxist utopian ideology. I'm just pointing out what YOUR religion says.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
There would have been no reason to lie if they hadn't been doing wrong in the first place. They did wrong and they knew they did wrong. You can't erase the wrong that they did. their sin was lying about it to create the impression they were giving it all when they weren't.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I have never said that it's a requirement. I've said that it's a principle. All these passages you interpret as requiring all believers to give up everything we own.... If you give less than 100% you can never be sure that you've given enough. And the principle doesn't apply only to money.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It's a principle illustrated by Elijah and the widow, Jesus and the widow with two mites, Jesus and the rich man, Ananias and Sapphira and possibly some other examples that are not on the top of my head. Acts 4 even uses the exact same phraseology as socialism: "and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." It's not even a principle, but if their crime deserved instantaneous death why quibble: that makes it a requirement, not a principle anyway. You can try all you like to justify individual greed but it ain't scriptural.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
No I am not. I am saying that 100% is the yardstick. Of course it's up to your own discretion but if you give less than 100% even YOU can't say for sure that you've done "enough", that you didn't "fall short", that you haven't let greed control your decisions. 100% is absolute. Anything else is iffy. You can try to fool yourself that you've yelled, "Lord! Lord!" loud enough but you can only really be sure about 100%. ... you are claiming there is a definite requirement involved.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jaywill writes:
Of course it wasn't a legal requirement. It was a social requirement based on a religious principle.
Acts does not say that that was a legal requirement. jaywill writes:
Not "some". It says, "for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold" (Acts 4:34). Everybody who had property sold it. It says that some did it voluntarily. And it doesn't say it was voluntary either. Maybe it was; maybe it wasn't. It doesn't say either way.
jaywill writes:
It doesn't say that either. Peter said, "Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?" Satan filled his heart to lie AND to keep back the money. ... they were rebuked for the hypocrisy and NOT for any disobedience.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
It's not a case of unbelievers versus believers. It's a case of readers versus non-readers. The passage says what it says despite your attempts to distort it. But of course the unbelievers know better than the believers about everything biblical.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Clearly not, since you were wrong - blatantly wrong, demonstrably wrong. Two thousand years of biblical interpretation by the best of the best trump the self-serving stuff of the unbelievers.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
It clearly says they were punished for lying AND for holding back. It CLEARLY says they were punished for LYING about it.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It seems to suggest that God killed them - goats, everlasting fire, y'know. It might be worth your while to keep that in mind the next time you give 99%. so again...what killed them?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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