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Author Topic:   Semiotic argument for ID
ringo
Member
Posts: 13450
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 181 of 223 (725303)
04-25-2014 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Ed67
04-24-2014 7:41 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
Ed67 writes:

Yes, and the information in the mould was put there by an intelligent designer.


I'd like to know who "designed" the pothole in front of my house. The ice is moulded so nicely to fit it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 7:41 PM Ed67 has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2702
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 182 of 223 (725308)
04-25-2014 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Ed67
04-24-2014 11:31 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
The word code , and information on that link are used so people like you can have an easier grasp at what's going on. Not because its a code that says build a protein like this, its just chemical reactions if you claim those are because of some code then so must be all the rest. And we live in a matrix like universe.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 11:31 PM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Ed67, posted 04-25-2014 11:32 PM frako has not yet responded

    
Ed67
Member (Idle past 826 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 183 of 223 (725345)
04-25-2014 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by frako
04-25-2014 3:26 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
frako writes:

The word code , and information on that link are used so people like you can have an easier grasp at what's going on. Not because its a code that says build a protein like this, its just chemical reactions if you claim those are because of some code then so must be all the rest. And we live in a matrix like universe.



And what did University of Washington researchers mean when they use the word "code" in this 2013 research report?

quote:
Since the genetic code was deciphered in the 1960s, scientists have assumed that it was used exclusively to write information about proteins. UW scientists were stunned to discover that genomes use the genetic code to write two separate languages. One describes how proteins are made, and the other instructs the cell on how genes are controlled. One language is written on top of the other, which is why the second language remained hidden for so long.

http://www.washington.edu/...-double-meaning-in-genetic-code

Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.

Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by subbie, posted 04-26-2014 12:10 AM Ed67 has not yet responded
 Message 189 by JonF, posted 04-26-2014 10:20 AM Ed67 has responded
 Message 191 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-26-2014 2:32 PM Ed67 has responded

    
subbie
Member (Idle past 204 days)
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 184 of 223 (725346)
04-26-2014 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Ed67
04-25-2014 11:32 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
Ed, are you familiar with the Dunning Kruger effect? You might want to look into it.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung


This message is a reply to:
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Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 465 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(2)
Message 185 of 223 (725348)
04-26-2014 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by subbie
04-26-2014 12:10 AM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
There are other concepts on that page relevant to Ed.

quote:
Instead, Fremdscham (the noun) describes the almost-horror you feel when you notice that somebody is oblivious to how embarrassing they truly are. Fremdscham occurs when someone who should feel embarrassed for themselves simply is not, and you start feeling embarrassment in their place.

Personally, I'm mortified.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by subbie, posted 04-26-2014 12:10 AM subbie has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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Larni
Member
Posts: 3943
From: UK
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 186 of 223 (725349)
04-26-2014 6:59 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Ed67
04-24-2014 3:01 PM


Re: I agree - same old argument, different name
Could define in your own words what CSI is, please? The implication I'm getting from poster is that you cannot do so and I would like to see you prove them wrong.

All the best.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 3:01 PM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Ed67, posted 04-26-2014 8:05 AM Larni has responded

    
Ed67
Member (Idle past 826 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 187 of 223 (725354)
04-26-2014 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Larni
04-26-2014 6:59 AM


Re: I agree - same old argument, different name
Larni writes:

Could define in your own words what CSI is, please? The implication I'm getting from poster is that you cannot do so and I would like to see you prove them wrong.
All the best.

As I've already explained, I don't invoke any special meaning by using the term. I simply mean information which is complex and specified. I've already walked you through the definitions of the terms. Any implication that I have not done so is false.

Try to keep up, please.

Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.

Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Larni, posted 04-26-2014 6:59 AM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by RAZD, posted 04-26-2014 9:08 AM Ed67 has responded
 Message 190 by JonF, posted 04-26-2014 10:25 AM Ed67 has responded
 Message 193 by Larni, posted 04-26-2014 6:29 PM Ed67 has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18858
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 188 of 223 (725359)
04-26-2014 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Ed67
04-26-2014 8:05 AM


in your own words
... I simply mean information which is complex and specified. ...

Well that is a start. Like:

Of course if the hours were sunrise to sunset it would be even more complex specified information (an increase in quantity but not quality). Note it is written in code ...

... I simply mean information which is complex and specified. ...

Like the information to form complex salt crystals in specified formations.

Can you please elucidate in your own words any part of DNA function or existence that does not involve chemical bonds and chemical reactions in accordance with the rules of chemistry? It appears you are having a little bit of trouble grasping this simple concept ...

Can you please elucidate in your own words any specific difference in quality rather than quantity between DNA and salt molecules?

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Ed67, posted 04-26-2014 8:05 AM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 5:22 PM RAZD has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3881
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 189 of 223 (725367)
04-26-2014 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Ed67
04-25-2014 11:32 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
And what did University of Washington researchers mean when they use the word "code" in this 2013 research report?

quote:

Since the genetic code was deciphered in the 1960s, scientists have assumed that it was used exclusively to write information about proteins. UW scientists were stunned to discover that genomes use the genetic code to write two separate languages. One describes how proteins are made, and the other instructs the cell on how genes are controlled. One language is written on top of the other, which is why the second language remained hidden for so long.

The standard meaning... the "rules" "imposed" by natural chemical reactions that govern the translation from DNA to protein. There's no code in DNA, and the "genetic code" is just chemistry. Cool and complex chemistry, but just chemistry.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Ed67, posted 04-25-2014 11:32 PM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 8:19 PM JonF has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3881
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 190 of 223 (725368)
04-26-2014 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Ed67
04-26-2014 8:05 AM


Re: I agree - same old argument, different name
As I've already explained, I don't invoke any special meaning by using the term. I simply mean information which is complex and specified

The definitions you have offered are useless. They involve too many subjective evaluations and are not operational definitions. Two people could easily disagree whether some system possesses CSI because your definitions do not invoke objective measures.

Fail.

{ABE} Your definitions boil down to "it sure looks like CSI to me!"

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Ed67, posted 04-26-2014 8:05 AM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
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Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 247
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 191 of 223 (725379)
04-26-2014 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Ed67
04-25-2014 11:32 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
And what did University of Washington researchers mean when they use the word "code" in this 2013 research report?

quote:Since the genetic code was deciphered in the 1960s, scientists have assumed that it was used exclusively to write information about proteins. UW scientists were stunned to discover that genomes use the genetic code to write two separate languages. One describes how proteins are made, and the other instructs the cell on how genes are controlled. One language is written on top of the other, which is why the second language remained hidden for so long.

http://www.washington.edu/...-double-meaning-in-genetic-code

You really and truly should try to understand 2 simple ideas: metaphor and equivocation. Your apparent inability to recognize either of these concepts in the wild is causing you to look like a troll.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Ed67, posted 04-25-2014 11:32 PM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Ed67, posted 04-26-2014 9:54 PM Capt Stormfield has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18858
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 192 of 223 (725380)
04-26-2014 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by JonF
04-26-2014 10:25 AM


everything carries the information, complex and specified
The definitions you have offered are useless. They involve too many subjective evaluations and are not operational definitions. Two people could easily disagree whether some system possesses CSI because your definitions do not invoke objective measures.

Information that is complex and specified ...

... applies to everything, from the smallest known subatomic particle to the largest black hole.

Without it there would be only one uniform sameness.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by JonF, posted 04-26-2014 10:25 AM JonF has not yet responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3943
From: UK
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 193 of 223 (725388)
04-26-2014 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Ed67
04-26-2014 8:05 AM


Re: I agree - same old argument, different name
Could you link me to the post where you have done so, please?

All the best.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Ed67, posted 04-26-2014 8:05 AM Ed67 has not yet responded

    
Ed67
Member (Idle past 826 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 194 of 223 (725402)
04-26-2014 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Capt Stormfield
04-26-2014 2:32 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
THIS is priceless
Capt writes:

And what did University of Washington researchers mean when they use the word "code" in this 2013 research report?
quote:Since the genetic code was deciphered in the 1960s, scientists have assumed that it was used exclusively to write information about proteins. UW scientists were stunned to discover that genomes use the genetic code to write two separate languages. One describes how proteins are made, and the other instructs the cell on how genes are controlled. One language is written on top of the other, which is why the second language remained hidden for so long.

http://www.washington.edu/...-double-meaning-in-genetic-code

You really and truly should try to understand 2 simple ideas: metaphor and equivocation. Your apparent inability to recognize either of these concepts in the wild is causing you to look like a troll.

Ok, , let me get this straight:

You claim that the researchers at the University of Washington were METAPHORICALLY EQUIVOCATING
when they wrote their papers about their recent research findings.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-26-2014 2:32 PM Capt Stormfield has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-26-2014 11:25 PM Ed67 has responded
 Message 197 by AZPaul3, posted 04-27-2014 9:46 AM Ed67 has responded

    
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 247
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 195 of 223 (725410)
04-26-2014 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Ed67
04-26-2014 9:54 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
Half right, as befits your wit.

The researchers, like all scientists, are using metaphor when they describe DNA as a code. You are equivocating in most your attempts to herd reality off a cliff with language.

And thank you for affirming the inverse relationship between use of smilies and "interesting".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Ed67, posted 04-26-2014 9:54 PM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 3:44 AM Capt Stormfield has responded
 Message 200 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 12:51 PM Capt Stormfield has responded

  
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