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Author Topic:   Science, Religion, God – Let’s just be honest
scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 1 of 174 (715566)
01-06-2014 8:10 PM


The following is a collection of my thoughts in probably not the best chronological order. These really aren't "new" thoughts, they are just straightforward sentiments.
How can this be? asks one person, God did it replies another. God has always been invoked as the answer when we don’t quite know what to make of something and how it works. But with so many real scientific discoveries in front of us there’s less and less room for God as an explanation for why known phenomena are occurring or have occurred. Plenty of people still believe that there’s enough room for God — and it could be that there still is if you want there to be, at least for now.
Here comes what might be a very unsettling surprise for many: All scientific progress in the history of humanity has only ever started by questioning whether or not God had something to do with it. It started with a curiosity that challenged the notion that only the divine could explain why something was the way that it was. This was the birth of science. What is science? It’s simply an ongoing quest to discover the truth, not a supposed truth that we say is real or want to be real.
Perhaps the journey of scientific discovery started by someone wondering if an illness was really a judgment of God or just a natural unfortunate turn of events that occurs in nature, outside of whether or not there is a prayer for divine intervention involved .
Think about this: if you know that God is responsible for something, then why bother exploring how it works independent of the deity? You already know the truth and why it’s happening and how it fits into your believed scheme of things. But is it the truth?
All of the progress and scientific knowledge we have today would simply not exist if someone somewhere along the line hadn’t wondered for that first split second whether or not God had something to do with whatever it is they were trying to find answers for. And yet, why is it that God gets so much more credit than He deserves?
If all of us never asked ourselves the honest questions and found our religion too comfortable to question, we’d still believe that lightning is caused by Zeus (or whatever other God you would attribute lightning to), that the earth is flat and that deformities and disease are punishment for disobedience towards God. The Aztecs had such a strong faith in their God(s) that they were willing to perform hundreds of thousands of human sacrifices so that the gods did not end the world. That’s dedication! It was also a sad unavoidable fact in their world.
Of course, the Christian looks at something like human sacrifices in horror and also exclaims how deluded and misled the Aztecs were. A Christian might also feel sadness that those poor heathen peoples were never able to hear the real truth and will now have to probably face hell on top of being sacrificed already. But what is the truth? The truth doesn’t inherit truthfulness based on your acknowledgement of it, it just is. It can’t be changed into what you want it to be. Wanting to believe something is true with every fiber of your being won’t make it so, it either is or it isn’t. Interestingly enough, the truth is usually never what we want it to be.
When one objectively looks at religion as a whole, it all starts looking like one story but with different plots and ending versions each with a dedicated following to its own version of the story, insisting that their version is unquestionably correct. To the person observing a theological debate between different religious sects, it looks quite similar to watching a couple of people put time and energy debating the innermost truths of The Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter . What a colossal waste of time and energy and life!
So why do so many people waste their time with a bunch of made up teachings and rules of a deity that they have no verification for whatsoever? Because somewhere along the line they never questioned their beliefs by asking Do I absolutely one hundred percent know that this is the truth?, they simply believed what they were told, or found ways to make it all work in their head. If a religious person is faced with the question do you know for certain?, they will then either continue to delude themselves that they do absolutely know for certain that their belief system is fact or they will come to the honest realization that they can’t exactly know for sure. This is usually where the process of enlightenment starts to creep in, because it’s ultimately about humility and asking Why do I believe this?
Acknowledging you don’t have all the answers for something is probably the most humble position there is. But thinking we really know the unknown makes us feel self-important, it places us above the person who doesn’t know.
But why do we naturally want to be clouded by false certainties? Because religion gives people an enormous amount of comfort, false comfort. Facing inconvenient truths may not be easy for many, but is it worse than living a lie?
The discovery of gravity and evolution and every other scientific advancement was not because someone wanted that to be the way it is, but because they were willing to look at the evidence (without a preconceived dogmatic certainty) and form an idea that they could test with scientific rigor to find out if indeed that is how things work.
The scientific process always starts with an idea and asks itself: Is this the truth? and then it begins the process of finding out if the evidence matches up, making it either the most likely truth or inevitably resulting in ruling it out. It’s the only process that has ever yielded truthful, practical answers for us. It’s not a perfect process, but it’s a process that has historically been shown to work, and clearly it has when you look at how far we’ve come. The fact that we can now, at least to some extent, predict certain weather patterns is a result of science working.
In ancient times the weather was amazing proof that the gods were busy at work, but they aren’t proof of that anymore because we actually know the truth. Invoking an answer where a future real answer exists is simply telling yourself something you want to hear, not what actually is. God has always been the answer before the answer, and in the back of your mind you really already know that. Unless God is deliberately playing hide and seek with science, this trend doesn’t seem likely to change.
As others have put it, a non-believer just believes in one less god than a believer in only one God. Non-believers and Christians (or insert any other religion here) also have more in common than you’d think. They have a shared disbelief in the flying spaghetti monster and Santa Claus as well as the unicorn and astrology. But why? Because on these points the Christian and the non-believer alike look at the evidence (or lack thereof) objectively and then form their conclusion (of course those things can’t be disproven either). Not believing in those things clearly doesn’t conflict with science and neither does it conflict with Christianity — I suppose this makes it easy for the Christian to acknowledge the lack of evidence since the scrutiny process is not being applied to their preciously esteemed beliefs. Little does the Christian know, however, that it is on this very same scientific rational basis by which the non-believer concludes that there probably is no traditional god figure either (and certainly not a bunch of gods).
The only way that the Christian (or follower of any religion or spiritualism for that matter) can continue to believe in their religion in spite of scientific realities is because they want it to be true regardless of what science ends up discovering. Nothing can change that or disturb their made-up reality unless the individual chooses to be honest and ask real questions rather than believing they have answers for things they do not. If you ask the average Christian if they believe in purple dragons, it’s very likely that they will say no. The non-believer has the very same reaction when asked about God because there’s simply no reason to adhere to any religion when they offer no evidence for their being real. Evidence for purple dragons? None. Evidence for a particular deity such as Yahweh or Allah? None.
So really, it just all starts with honesty. The religious person may retort with a well, you think you have all the answers too! but that’s not the case and at worst it’s just a copout so that the religious person does not have to notice how vacuous the evidence is for their own belief system. Science has revealed some answers and quite a bit of more than likely truths. There are many more answers to come and there will be mistakes made along the way to truth, but that’s why it’s such a beautiful, humble, and powerful thing.
Any individual who embraced the existence of a religious deity in times long ago was on the apparently winning side of any argument because, well, how do you explain lightning then if there is no God? Rain? Fire? Animals? Human existence? The unbeliever had no answer and so, God did it for a while. But now we do have a plethora of workable answers about our earth and the universe. So much scientific discovery has forced the believer to retreat to arguments such as so what caused the existence of something rather than nothing then if not a God?. The question itself may still be thought of as formidable for a person wanting to desperately hang on to a belief in their version of God, but it isn’t a real answer for the honest mind unwilling to just stop trying to find out the truth.
So is it just a question that science has not fully answered and has perhaps almost answered?
Science is a process that yields explanations about how things work, so if you invoke a God then it only complicates matters because the origin or existence of God would itself have to be explained via some kind sensible process, necessitating explanations about endless creator gods creating the creator God ad infinitum. It’s an inferior argument than just admitting we don’t have all the answers yet, that we don’t really know.
It could be that something just is and has been forever and there is really no such thing as nothing (after all, air and space and even things we can’t see are still something even if they seem to be nothing).
Inserting a god into the equation accomplishes nothing in terms of finding the answers because we don’t even know how a God is supposed to be defined? Is it supposed to be a giant human-looking white bearded male-esque figure sitting on a throne somewhere in the Universe (or outside of the universe)?
All of the creationist/intelligent design arguments such as but God is the first cause beyond the laws of physics and not subject to time or space don’t add any more to the argument than if you were to replace that word God with Zeus or any other deity name you wish and present it as evidence for that particular thing that’s being referenced as existing. Saying God did it has no more weight as a sound answer than saying The LaLa did it. What is a The LaLa?
As we observe the universe and witness the complete chaotic disorder happening in billions of galaxies simultaneously, the idea of a god becomes even more unconvincing. Our planet, including life, starts to look like an accident that was waiting to happen considering the billions of different planet to star ratios and almost endless varieties of chance outcomes. What would be the purpose of those planets and billions of other suns just like ours? If humanity is truly the focus of some deity that will one day take us to a wonderful heaven far away, why are there so many random natural sets of phenomena occurring everywhere else at this moment with no relation whatsoever to the purposes contained in any religion?
As we are busy worrying if gay marriage will end civilization there are asteroids flying and hitting random planets causing violent destruction, black holes, supernovas, planets in upheaval from forces within, water, lava, volcanos, galaxies and planets being born constantly — where is God’s plan in all of this unrevealed randomness?
We may very soon even find life on a distant planet, within years. It all makes our destiny look pretty out of our control when you just look at it for what it’s worth. I often hear people talk about the improbability of life just springing up, believing simultaneously that if God did it that the whole thing will make sense. If we’re talking about probability, ask yourself, what was the probability for my existence? Imagine the billions of sperms out there and the odds of you being born? The odds certainly weren’t in your favor but here you are!
There may be and most likely will be a profound , what some might term godlike, discovery on origins coming our way but there is still going to be an understandable scientific explanation, not a too mysterious to understand bearded daddy in the sky wearing a robe and punishing his creations for petty mistakes with a giant lake of fire.
I believe that religion is purely sinister at its core. Why? Because religion tells someone that they have the answer without really having one, and that can’t be good for human progress. The good news is that something called self-honesty annihilates superstitious thought and the grand delusion shared by all religious people alike which is: the ignorance of certainty. Being certain about something and still being wrong is a pretty daunting thought, but don’t worry, some people will simply take that certainty to the grave and not have to worry about facing up to the fact that they were wrong. Science questions the certainty of things and provides the best explanations based on evidence, religion never does and cannot do that — it just assumes the answer regardless of whether or not that answer holds any true merit.
A Christian rejects Islam and Hinduism and Buddah and the Greek and Egyptian Pantheons and every other God except for Yaweh of the Biblical manuscripts, which colloquially they refer to as God. Religions in general tend to believe that anyone who believes in something that isn’t their own is deluded about the real truth, because they actually know the truth. The Christian knows for a fact that Jesus is the truth the way and the life and that followers of every other religion are doomed to damnation by not accepting Him into their hearts. It even makes such privileged truth-bearing individuals terribly sad knowing that so few will be saved and that the non-believer will never share eternal life with them because of their refusal to see the light. But those of us who still possess some rational thinking know all too well how we humans mock the truth.
If you look at it without a preferred shade, religion has only ever hindered human progress. Religious figures and institutions have always tried to suppress any scientific discovery that might run counter to what they believe is the truth based on their holy book — while, of course, having no problem with certain scientific revelations that can be rationalized not to conflict or even fit. Galileo’s work of progress in discovering that the earth orbits the sun and not vice versa was met with the Clergy locking him up. The reality is that no god has ever done humanity the favor of helping us to learn the truth about anything useful in this world. It has all come from humans themselves asking questions in the face of acknowledged ignorance. Perhaps we have found the real identity of the devil: religion itself.
When you really stop and contemplate it, religion is the antithesis of truth, it is the very opposite of honesty, it is simply self-delusion. Religion lies to those who serve it, it is a machine of control that was invented by humans to mentally enslave others too ignorant to think for themselves outside of the box. It is a method of control bringing with it manipulation, manufactured guilt (you’re doubting because you want to protect your love of sin!. Sound familiar?), mental torture and self-castigation while simultaneously giving its followers the false excitement of being the few or the many who actually know the truth in their hearts and have a special connection with their deity. Of course, anyone who questions this realty is trying to dupe and deceive and lead astray and take you away from the blessed hope that you just know for sure is waiting for you on the other side! And how sad would it be to be eternally lost by not accepting that truth that you just know is fact because God has spoken to you?
One positive thought in all of this is that once a deluded believer in religion has passed away they won’t have to face the devastating reality of how much time and effort they wasted and taught others to waste on pure fantasy — they won’t have to regret it. When a living person gets duped into a Ponzi scheme or some other scam that is too good to be true they are usually given the opportunity of having to acknowledge that they were duped and realize that they wasted money and time on it. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is rings as such a rational piece of thought (and rightfully so) for so many people who are yet still mentally clinging on with faith believing in the biggest too good to be true scam ever perpetrated by mankind: religion.
I often hear religious people talk about how there can be perfect harmony between their religion and science but it’s just not true, and I’ll explain why. The only way science and religion would be able to be compatible is for religion to cease being religion. One who holds religious belief would need to be willing to put certain beliefs aside in the event that they are shown wrong through scientific discovery and in that case religion would just revert to being a fill-in belief based on lack of evidence to believe otherwise — inherently not religion, after all, no religious person goes about trying to convert others to their way of thinking if they aren’t already under the premise that the main tenets of their belief system are true/fact/reality. The reason science and religion are therefore incompatible is because religion assumes to know a certain set of answers through beliefs that are assumed to be true no matter what science may eventually show. If science calls into question the truthfulness of a portion of that religion, that religion will continue to believe the conclusions that the religion started with and that inevitably puts it at odds with science and reality and the truth. That is why they not only don’t work together, they can’t work together.
Science is not arrogant and self-important like religion. Science is a mechanism for yielding real answers and accumulating facts, not made up ones.
Science works, it has worked in the past and will continue to work going forward. No matter how strong your faith is in your particular deity or religion, it will not stand the test of time like science will because science is simply an honest exploration in search of the truth. That is why science will win.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 01-07-2014 2:50 AM scienceishonesty has replied
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 01-07-2014 1:01 PM scienceishonesty has replied
 Message 7 by GDR, posted 01-07-2014 2:09 PM scienceishonesty has replied
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scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 3 of 174 (715568)
01-07-2014 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
01-07-2014 2:50 AM


Re: Summed Up In One Post
1. In so many words, yes. It is the only explanation that has withstood scrutiny.
2. I do. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.

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scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 9 of 174 (715587)
01-07-2014 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
01-07-2014 1:01 PM


Re: Is It Honest To Prefer An Answer?
quote:
So in essence, God-Of-The-Gaps is still allowing a small gap? What about saying that there either is or there is not? period?
God either exists or He does not, regardless of how you or I feel and regardless of evidence and/or lack thereof. God has never been a concept requiring evidence to begin with.
My opening line was just rhetorical to get people to *think*. And there's ALWAYS room for "god" for some people because a "god" can't be falsified if it is never defined.
Also, "win" meaning, that it (science) will stand the test of time and religions will not because religions aren't based on finding truth but on asserting it before it is known.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.

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 Message 11 by Diomedes, posted 01-07-2014 4:27 PM scienceishonesty has replied

  
scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 10 of 174 (715588)
01-07-2014 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by GDR
01-07-2014 2:09 PM


GDR,
How does one figure out what is the "right" way to understand the Bible so that we don't get "caught up" in "fundamentalism"?
Do we email God? Or text?
I stand by my assertion that one cannot fully and unwaveringly adhere to a religion and science at the same time. If the person is willing to treat a religion like it is just a gap filler until it becomes shown to be possibly unlikely, that's no different than having a naturalistic explanation in science which may eventually be falsified. Such a notion is not religion at all. I already tried that one. I told myself that I could be a Christian while leaving open the possibility that it COULD at some point in time be shown to be totally improbable. But then why fool myself that I'm really a believer when I can't truly know that it's unwaveringly "truth"?
When one BELIEVES in a religion they already assume that it is correct on SOME level, whether it is extreme fundamentalism or strictly that "Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins". At some level the religious person draws a line and says "this is truth regardless of what science might make probable or improbable". Making both science and religion compatible is just mental gymnastics.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by GDR, posted 01-07-2014 5:22 PM scienceishonesty has replied
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 Message 15 by nwr, posted 01-07-2014 5:36 PM scienceishonesty has replied

  
scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 12 of 174 (715590)
01-07-2014 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Diomedes
01-07-2014 4:27 PM


Re: Is It Honest To Prefer An Answer?
The main problem with the "God" issue is that "God" is never well defined so we really have no idea what the person is talking about. A lot of religious people will jump back and forth between "intelligent design" and "God". So what is "God"? A big bearded giant "man" hidden in the sky but outside of the universe? It's just this abstract idea people throw around and it could mean vastly different things depending on the person.
I could define "God" as "the next biggest discovery yet unknown" and under that context I "DO" believe in God!
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.

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scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 16 of 174 (715601)
01-07-2014 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by GDR
01-07-2014 5:22 PM


quote:
We can't know what the right way is. It is a matter of faith and belief. In some ways though, not so different than science. However, I agree that ultimately people are hopeful that their unproven scientific beliefs will be proven to be correct.
Why not just be open to this from the very beginning? And yes it IS fundamentally different from science because science doesn't tell people they are going to hell if they don't embrace the current idea that's supported by evidence. If someone wants to persist in their religious dogma and are relying on it one day being vindicated, then by all means they can waste their time (after all we are free to believe whatever we want), just don't try to convince others to waste their time when there's no evidence. How about it?
quote:
I look to science to inform me as to how the world we perceive evolved and how we can best make use of what we have and how we can best preserve it.
No. If you already have your mind made up about certain religious matters you do NOT look to science to inform you, you are simply okay with the certain scientific discoveries that don't shake up your pet beliefs.
quote:
I look to my faith to inform me of the nature of the God who I believe is responsible for our existence and to give me guidance of how I should live my life, realizing that I can't know that I am right in the same way that I can know what the speed of light is.
When you believe in a religious idea like, for instance, that Zeus is responsible for lightning, you don't cling on to such an idea thinking "well, I think Zeus is true and he does cause lightning, but if we do figure how lightning can be explained without Him, then I'll give up my faith".
If that IS the way you view your religion then it isn't a religion at all. If you do have a certain level of unwavering belief that you believe is true regardless of what science says, then you're automatically incompatible with embracing science, even if you tell yourself that they can harmoniously abide by each other.
It is true that you can embrace evolution or any specific scientific principle or discovery and still be religious, but you can't embrace the "entirety of the scientific process" for all matters completely if you're religious because religion holds certain matters (small or great) to be "untouchable" and "sacred"...fundamentally "not wrong" no matter what science may eventually have to say.
I've already been in your camp, it's called blinding yourself to reality.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.

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scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 17 of 174 (715604)
01-07-2014 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by jar
01-07-2014 5:29 PM


Re: false dichotomies.
jar, you can throw around mildly malicious insults regarding the size of one's (in this case, my) cerebral capacity and also assert, despite reality, that you believe in both, but it doesn't change the incompatibility of the two ideas in a general sense. I've provided a formidable argument showing that you cannot have both unless you simply regard religion as a potentially temporary belief that can be possibly shown to be false in the future -- which will automatically make it lose its religiosity.
You can believe in certain scientific ideas that HAVE been discovered and still hold on to certain religious ideas simultaneously, but you can't fully be in harmony with all possible evidence-based scientific conclusions which may conflict with your core beliefs.
Let's take Christianity and look at the different extremes represented. Let's say that 1 is very mild and 10 is the most radically fundamental. Even if you choose 1, you're still clinging on to a firm and unwavering belief in SOME aspect of that religion and believe it to be absolutely "the truth" regardless of what science may reveal in the future. You can point to extremes to make yourself look immune from the same fate but the reality belies your position.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
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Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.

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 Message 19 by jar, posted 01-07-2014 6:17 PM scienceishonesty has replied

  
scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 18 of 174 (715606)
01-07-2014 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by nwr
01-07-2014 5:36 PM


And if science shows the whole thing to be improbable and explainable without the Christian deity, then what?

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scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 20 of 174 (715608)
01-07-2014 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
01-07-2014 6:17 PM


Re: false dichotomies.
Blah blah blah, I hit your touchy defense mechanisms and the sirens are going off.
Alright, since you keep going in circles let's do this by me asking you a question and you answering.
Are there any teachings that are part of your religion which you hold to be true no matter what? If so, provide me with an example.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
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Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.

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scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 22 of 174 (715612)
01-07-2014 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jar
01-07-2014 6:36 PM


Re: false dichotomies.
Are these tenants tied in with any particular faith and a deity or just ideas you hold independently?

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 Message 21 by jar, posted 01-07-2014 6:36 PM jar has replied

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 Message 23 by jar, posted 01-07-2014 7:23 PM scienceishonesty has replied

  
scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 24 of 174 (715617)
01-07-2014 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
01-07-2014 7:23 PM


Re: false dichotomies.
I'm not locked into anything, I'm asking you basic questions about your religion and you're side-stepping them on purpose.
Let me start over.
Are you a Christian?

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 Message 23 by jar, posted 01-07-2014 7:23 PM jar has replied

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 Message 27 by jar, posted 01-07-2014 8:45 PM scienceishonesty has replied
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scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


(1)
Message 28 of 174 (715626)
01-07-2014 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by nwr
01-07-2014 8:23 PM


Wrong. Science has already shown many things that were once (and in some circles, still is) mainstream Christian held beliefs, based on the Bible, to be basically false. Science, of course, isn't out to prove anything or anybody wrong, it's just a mechanism of discovering reality -- a method we either accept based on the fact that it HAS worked and continues to work or something we reject based on wishful thinking. In that journey, science will ultimately step on the toes of some dearly held religious beliefs.
For example, you could still maintain to me that lightning and storm gods have not been scientifically shown to be demonstrably improbable and that only "some scientists have reached that conclusion". But how honest would you be?
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.

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scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 29 of 174 (715627)
01-07-2014 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
01-07-2014 8:45 PM


Re: false dichotomies.
I grew up in a very devout Christian home as well. But then again, I didn't ask you how you're raised, I asked you what you are.

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 Message 27 by jar, posted 01-07-2014 8:45 PM jar has replied

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 Message 30 by jar, posted 01-07-2014 9:09 PM scienceishonesty has replied

  
scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 33 of 174 (715671)
01-08-2014 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Raphael
01-08-2014 5:11 AM


Re: Some Things I Noticed
I alluded to Christianity a lot simply because that is what my background is, but I was very clear to include all religion in general in order so that my audience does not fall in the trap (which you did) that I'm carrying any particular vendetta towards Christianity specifically. I actually have no hatred whatsoever for religion, only for what it does to people. It makes me sad that so many people will continue to waste their lives and the lives of others on mythology.
This topic, as disjointed as it is, was a collection of "wow" thoughts and "moments" that popped in my head around the time that I finally started facing things from an objective perspective, from a realistic and honest perspective, not with the blinders of a religion which already supposes that it has a certain set of answers instead of real answers. I decided that it's time to stop believing something because I want it to be real.
My purpose is to hopefully inspire those who are on the fence to look at reality and take the red pill instead of the blue.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Raphael, posted 01-08-2014 5:11 AM Raphael has not replied

  
scienceishonesty
Member (Idle past 3729 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 12-02-2013


Message 34 of 174 (715672)
01-08-2014 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Stile
01-08-2014 9:16 AM


Re: Take a second look
Let's just make this simple for you. When someone believes in a certain religion, that is, to accept a certain set of doctrinal beliefs to be an absolute truth (to whatever degree, mild or extreme), they are automatically setting themselves up to potentially be at loggerheads with potentially new emerging discoveries about reality through science, either past, present or future. If someone's position is "well, these are my beliefs until they are shown to be wrong", well, that's not really religion because religion "knows that it knows (without knowing".
If a core religious tenant for someone in the past was believing the earth was flat, well, you can see how that would be a problem nowadays.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.
Edited by scienceishonesty, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Stile, posted 01-08-2014 9:16 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 01-08-2014 10:51 AM scienceishonesty has replied
 Message 46 by Stile, posted 01-08-2014 11:00 AM scienceishonesty has replied

  
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