Science, Religion, God – Let’s just be honest

I see such assertions quite often and they always just seem absurd propounding from little minds.I adhere to Christianity and science at the same time and thus refute that assertion. Again, that is just another false dichotomy. Even though I am a Christian I believe with a very high confidence level that Christianity at least partially false as is every other religion.The Map is not the Territory.Such assertions as you are making seem to show up from two sources, members of the Christian Cults of Ignorance and from ex-members of one of the Christian Cult of Ignorance churches. But that is NOT Christianity. Christianity contains a far wider selection pool that what you find by trawling the CCoI waters.

I'm sorry but what you seem to think are "a formidable argument" is really nothing that was not debated and caste aside as sophomoric back before I really was a sophomore. Bullshit. Sorry but that is simply another example of you making unfounded assertions, and as I said, when the seventh graders tried such "a formidable argument" the received a pat on the head for effort and a suggestion that they read "Language in Thought and Action".So perhaps you might be able to support your assertion. Remember, just because YOU can't do something does not mean all of us cannot do something.The very idea that you can assign levels like 1-10 to define something as "mild" or "fundamental" simply shows you really don't have a basis yet for what you want to say. Fundamental and mild are totally unrelated. It would like creating a scale with limes on one end and rocking horses on the other. It's just word salad.That's okay. It takes time and experience to develop such concepts. Keep trying.

You really don't have a clue do you?But here are some teachings I do hold to be true pretty much no matter what. As always when someone asks about absolutes I need to give a chuckle because while I would hope all of these teachings would be true I of course and also understand that there are also instances when I would say they are false.That we should love others as we love ourselves.That we are charged to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the sorrowful, heal the sick, teach the ignorant.That I will likely be judged based on what i have done in this life.That I have the capability to know right from wrong and I am charged to try to chose wisely since almost never will the choice really be simply right or wrong.That when I fail I should acknowledge my failure, be contrite, try to make amends and try not to make the same mistake in the future.There are five to start with.

You still seemed locked into binary thinking. Sad. Open up and throw binary thinking away.Hopefully they are tenets held by many religions. But they are also the tenets that Jesus taught.

A devout cradle creedal Episcopalian who grew up in a devout Christian family, educated in a Christian school, who helped found new churches, taught adult and child Sunday schools and have been the webmaster for several Christian church websites.So far I have not side-stepped any questions, basic or otherwise.

And I answered to explain what I am.I am a cradle creedal Episcopalian.Did you not read "A devout cradle creedal Episcopalian who grew up in a devout Christian family, educated in a Christian school, who helped found new churches, taught adult and child Sunday schools and have been the webmaster for several Christian church websites." as I posted in Message 27?Or maybe you are not familiar with the recognized Christian sects?

No. Jesus died because Jesus was born and anything (human at least) will die.

HUH?Couldda saved alotta time but I am willing to bet you are still as clueless as when you began.

Yup, ignorance and clueless.But are you interested in being educated and informed about my beliefs instead of just continuing to misrepresent what I believe?

Again, that post simply shows how totally ignorant about Christianity and limited in your thinking ability you are at this stage, but that can be cured if you want and are willing to work at it.Granted the Christian Cult of Ignorance chapters of Club Christian do teach such utter nonsense but that is partly what drives any thinking people away from the religion.If Jesus was divine while living here on earth among us then his death would have been meaningless and just make God look stupid. Humans can't just kill Gods. That's one way to tell if something really is a God. So if that were the case then Jesus death and resurrection are just a sham, a con-job.Further, if God can forgive sins then the act gets even funnier. Are you claiming that God decides that instead of just forgiving sins She decides to put on a human costume, get killed, reborn and only then forgive sins? And someone is expected to believe that?Not all chapters of Christianity are so shallow and simplistic as to use that as the basis of their beliefs.BUT ... imagine a God actually becoming human, not part god part human, not god and human, not god in a human costume but just human. Imagine god not able to walk or talk or control his bowels or feed himself and having to learn to see and hear and understand and learn to walk and learn to talk and learn to go potty...Imagine god knowing nothing more than what he is taught and experienced over thirty years; not all knowing, all powerful, just another human.Now that is a sacrifice.Imagine that god now only human living a life to teach by example. To teach us what a human can be, to say "Here, look, this is what human is and can be."Imagine this Jesus saying "Take up your cross and follow me; feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, comfort the sorrowful, teach the ignorant..."Christianity can be more than just a religion based on "What's in it for me?" or "Jesus the get outta hell card."

Stop misrepresenting my position.Learn to actually read what is written.No where have I said I do not need the Bible. Sorry but the Bible (actually since there is no such thing as "The Bible" I studied most of the Canons as well as extra-canonical writings) is the primary source for any mention of a character Jesus of Nazareth. There are no independent sources for such a person.The connection to the topic though is you assertion that Science and Religion cannot coexist, that because I am religious, devoutly religious, I avoid science or scientific conclusions.You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of meanings of pretty simple words.Believe and know are not synonyms.That is the first step you need to take, Once you fully understand that we can take the next step. Again, stop representing my position.Remember believe and know are not synonyms.That is what I believe happened, but it is irrelevant whether it is what actually happened or not.No where do I say that any part of the Bible is garbage, only a complete fool would make such an assertion and a fool is one thing I am not.What really happened is totally irrelevant.Would the world be better if we feed the hungry, clothed the naked, sheltered the homeless, educated the ignorant, comforted the sorrowful?Even if all the tales about Jesus are just stories told around a campfire (likely camel dung) the message still resonates.

You simply continue to misrepresent my position, but I'll try yet again. Please show where I said anything like "I don't know if this is true or not but I like to think maybe it might be so because it sure sounds like a hoot".Or you could stop misrepresenting what I write.An honest person when presented evidence that even a strongly held belief has been refuted simply say, "Damn, I was wrong but that sure is interesting." and moves on. But yet you seem unaware that even some religious schools teach students to question God; that even the Bible teaches us that we should be questioning God.Do you understand what "Israel" means?

Not quite. And this is important. It means "Struggles with God".Remember, Jesus was a Jew not a Christian. If you read the Bible you find that a major theme is both man and god struggling with the concepts of what is right and what is wrong. It's understanding that such questions are complex and not easily solved and that very seldom is there really a right answer. That does seem to be your position. I find that sad and pitiful.Reality is. It does not really care very much what I believe is true and in the end, regardless of my very strongly held beliefs, reality still is.I'd have to be a fool to continue holding a belief once presented with evidence that refutes my belief, and one thing I am not, is a fool.This is not the thread to get into even the Bible teaching us that we should be questioning God but it is there and I can most certainly support that assertion. If you want, start a thread on the subject.

It's a good thing that I never made such a claim then isn't it? That's fine. But in case you had not noticed, you are not me. But you asked a question that requires more thought than will fit on a bumper sticker. A quick verse instead of understanding is the hallmark of fundamentalism whether religious or atheistic. It stops thinking.

You need to stop misrepresenting my position.Just being a Christian does not imply in anyway that my morals come from Jesus.You need to move beyond black/white, right/wrong, yes/no thinking.And again, I have explained to you that I do not use quote mining. When will you learn to read?You are still as clueless as when you posted the OP it seems.