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Author Topic:   Is it time to consider compulsory vaccinations?
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 21 of 930 (736456)
09-10-2014 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Omnivorous
09-09-2014 9:11 PM


I'm not happy with "forcing" people to be immunized just because they're breathing - even if it's the only way to keep them breathing. If they want to die, let 'em die.
However, I have no problem with requiring people to be immunized before they qualify for jobs where they're in contact with the public - health services, food services, Wal-mart, plumbing, etc. If they want to infect other people, sorry, no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Omnivorous, posted 09-09-2014 9:11 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by DrJones*, posted 09-10-2014 1:40 PM ringo has replied
 Message 55 by Omnivorous, posted 09-11-2014 8:27 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 24 of 930 (736460)
09-10-2014 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by DrJones*
09-10-2014 1:40 PM


DrJones* writes:
Yes they should be allowed to be stupid and to inflict their stupidity on their children....
I'm not particularly happy with people inflicting their stupidity on their children either (though I suppose that can't be avoided in one form or another). No public schools without vaccinations (and no accreditation for private schools that don't require vaccinations), no sports teams, no extracurricular activities of any kind.... There are a lot of loopholes to be filled.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by DrJones*, posted 09-10-2014 1:40 PM DrJones* has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 65 of 930 (736572)
09-11-2014 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Omnivorous
09-11-2014 8:27 AM


Omni writes:
The problem with linking vaccinations with employment, public schools, public building access, etc., is that it would simply not do the job. The employment approaches would miss children altogether.
If people think ahead that their children won't be able to get a job, I think that will motivate them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Omnivorous, posted 09-11-2014 8:27 AM Omnivorous has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by NoNukes, posted 09-11-2014 12:00 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 70 of 930 (736583)
09-11-2014 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by NoNukes
09-11-2014 12:00 PM


NoNukes writes:
First there are no laws preventing people from working as long as they are not sick...
I'm saying maybe there should be. We have silly things like work permits for people who were unfortunate enough to be born somewhere else. Why not have work permits for sensible reasons too?
NoNukes writes:
... and secondly those laws wouldn't affect the children at an early enough age to help us out.
As I said, there are a lot of loopholes. Let's plug all of them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by NoNukes, posted 09-11-2014 12:00 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by NoNukes, posted 09-11-2014 1:29 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 77 of 930 (736599)
09-11-2014 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by NoNukes
09-11-2014 1:29 PM


NoNukes writes:
Because we don't want the government to have the reach necessary to pull off such a feat?
How is protecting your citizens at home "less reach" than invading somebody two continents over? Talk about a crazy extension of "not in my back yard".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by NoNukes, posted 09-11-2014 1:29 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by NoNukes, posted 09-11-2014 1:58 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 83 of 930 (736607)
09-11-2014 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by NoNukes
09-11-2014 1:58 PM


NoNukes writes:
Instead I'll just say that regardless of the any inconsistency you find in our overseas interference, I don't want the government in my jock.
If the people have no sense when it comes to government, how can you expect them to have any sense when it comes to vaccination?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by NoNukes, posted 09-11-2014 1:58 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by NoNukes, posted 09-11-2014 2:16 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 90 of 930 (736615)
09-11-2014 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by NoNukes
09-11-2014 2:16 PM


NoNukes writes:
I think it is entirely reasonable for me to want the federal and state governments to have limited power.
I too want the government to have limited power but I want that power to be used for sensible purposes. Instead of keeping healthy people out of the country, I'd like to see them keep sick people out of public areas. One way to do that is by limiting access to unvaccinated people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by NoNukes, posted 09-11-2014 2:16 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by NoNukes, posted 09-11-2014 9:16 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 120 by NoNukes, posted 09-11-2014 9:19 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 143 of 930 (736704)
09-12-2014 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by NoNukes
09-11-2014 9:19 PM


NoNukes writes:
It actually turns out to be impossible to exclude unvaccinated people from every public place.
Of course perfection is impossible. But as somebody else has pointed out, the more people who are vaccinated the harder it is for a disease to spread. You don't have to take out every domino to prevent a domino effect. You only have to widen the gaps.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by NoNukes, posted 09-11-2014 9:19 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by NoNukes, posted 09-12-2014 12:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 146 of 930 (736715)
09-12-2014 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by NoNukes
09-12-2014 12:21 PM


NoNukes writes:
Perfection in this case is less than 100% of the public vaccinated, because for some people cannot be vaccinated, and we won't exclude them from public places. We cannot even strive for that.
The period isn't a signal to stop reading. Here's the rest of the post again:
quote:
But as somebody else has pointed out, the more people who are vaccinated the harder it is for a disease to spread. You don't have to take out every domino to prevent a domino effect. You only have to widen the gaps.
Have you noticed the term "critical mass" in this thread? We don't need to strive for 100%. We only need to strive for "enough".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by NoNukes, posted 09-12-2014 12:21 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by NoNukes, posted 09-12-2014 12:57 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 148 of 930 (736718)
09-12-2014 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by NoNukes
09-12-2014 12:57 PM


NoNukes writes:
And the fact that we only need enough means that we can use methods that only result in enough.
And the fact that we don't currently have enough suggests that we need to do something more than nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by NoNukes, posted 09-12-2014 12:57 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by NoNukes, posted 09-13-2014 12:06 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 162 of 930 (736798)
09-13-2014 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by NoNukes
09-13-2014 12:06 AM


NoNukes writes:
We disagree about what more we ought to do next. Surely that's clear.
What isn't clear is what you think we ought to do next. You seem to be arguing against everything that anybody suggests.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by NoNukes, posted 09-13-2014 12:06 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by NoNukes, posted 09-13-2014 8:09 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 167 of 930 (736886)
09-14-2014 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by NoNukes
09-13-2014 8:09 PM


NoNukes writes:
The only thing I've argued against is mandatory vaccinations not tied to something like taking advantage of a public program.
The only thing I've argued for is mandatory vaccinations for people taking advantage of public programs. Maybe I have a wider view of what constitutes "public" than you do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by NoNukes, posted 09-13-2014 8:09 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by NoNukes, posted 09-14-2014 2:45 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 170 of 930 (736896)
09-14-2014 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by NoNukes
09-14-2014 2:45 PM


NoNukes writes:
Then you've spotted the boundaries of our disagreement. Perhaps now you can stop saying that I disagree with everything.
Maybe you can point out somebody on this thread that you agree with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by NoNukes, posted 09-14-2014 2:45 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by NoNukes, posted 09-14-2014 4:13 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 180 of 930 (736975)
09-15-2014 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by NoNukes
09-14-2014 4:13 PM


NoNukes writes:
... I don't believe I've cast any aspersions on people who feel differently.
I haven't said anything about casting aspersions.
NoNukes writes:
Am I supposed to apologize for holding a minority opinion? Not going to do it.
Nor have I asked for an apology. I simply pointed out that you seem to be poking holes in {almost} every suggestion without offering (m)any constructive suggestions yourself.
Edited by ringo, : Splling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by NoNukes, posted 09-14-2014 4:13 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 197 of 930 (749870)
02-09-2015 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Dogmafood
02-09-2015 10:16 AM


ProtoTypical writes:
Don't we have the right to be wrong and isn't this the cost of self-determination?
You have the right to be wrong. You don't have the right to do wrong. Your right to self-determination ends at the tip of somebody else's self-determination.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Dogmafood, posted 02-09-2015 10:16 AM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Dogmafood, posted 02-09-2015 10:37 PM ringo has replied

  
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