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Author | Topic: Is it time to consider compulsory vaccinations? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
I'm not happy with forcing people to do anything--nothing cuts harder against my grain.
Same here. Still, I find it hard to understand the objection to vaccination. Parents should be wanting their children to be vaccinated. Maybe we can persuade the kids to work on this. It's not that long from the time when people held chicken pox parties. You go to the party so that you get the chicken pox out of the way. But there were never measles parties, because measles is a far more serious disease. Maybe we need the kids to hold vaccination parties. You are not welcome unless you have had the shots. That would put peer pressure to work for the common good.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
My first guess was diphtheria, whooping cough, smallpox and polio but the DPT shot is one of those identified as most dangerous.
You can probably skip the smallpox. But add measles.
The great majority of the horror stories about immunizations seem to be about those done in infancy or the first couple of years. Maybe this is an argument for waiting until later?
Some of those diseases are particularly deadly to infants. Pertussis is an example of that.
Since I and all my siblings and everybody else I know from my generation survived measles, mumps and chicken pox without any ill effects, I don't really see a need for most people to be vaccinated against those. Measles is the most dangerous of those. It should not be taken lightly. I had a severe case of chicken pox as a child, but even so it was mild compared to measles. I seem to have avoided mumps.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Yes, I'm aware of that.
Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
And I can't just say they're wrong, how could I know?
I can and will. They're wrong. And yes, you could know. It just takes a little study.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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and we take the measles cases in the US from 2001 — 2014 (maybe 2000 cases) and an annual birth rate of about 4 million and vaccinated everyone then you would cause about 12 cases of encephalitis by vaccinating for every one caused by the disease itself. You are basing the measles infection rate on a mostly vaccinated population. Shouldn't you be looking at the infection rate among the unvaccinated in your comparison?Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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The comparison to a vaccinated population is valid for someone living within one.
Not really. You are trying to evaluate having a child in the unvaccinated subpopulation. So you need to use the statistics relevant to that subpopulation.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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The incidence and mortality rates of nearly all infectious diseases have been falling long before the introduction of vaccines. Good drinking water, personal hygiene and nutrition will impact the spread of any communicable disease as much if not more than any vaccine. Good drinking water, personal hygiene and nutrition did not prevent me from getting measles and chicken pox. My children escaped measles because of vaccine, but the vaccine was a bit late to protect her from chicken pox. Likewise, it was vaccines that stopped polio in its tracks. Good drinking water and hygiene work with cholera, but not with measles. As I see it, the two most important advances in public health were vaccination and indoor plumbing. But you need both of those. Neither one alone does the job.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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If society creates a benefit that I can not avoid (like herd immunity) am I then obligated to participate in it's continuation? No, of course not. You are welcome to live in the jungles and fight it out with the lions. This is the basic contradiction of libertarianism. The libertarians like to sound righteous about their beliefs. But, in reality, they are parasites, leeching of the benefits provided by a complex society, yet refusing to pay their fair share of the costs.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
If you want to be able to enjoy the ice cream, you first have to eat some spinach.
Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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If all the Good Guys are vaccinated what is the threat of a few healthy unvaccinated ones in their midst?
Yes, you are right. That's exactly what we need -- a bunch of Typhoid Marys on the loose among us. [/sarcasm]Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
You are all OK with that many doses?
You get one shot for DPT (Diphtheria, Pertussis, Tetanus) . Why is that being called three doses? Similarly for some of the others. It seems to me that the list is deliberately exaggerating, and attempting go generate unwarranted fear. And I probably get more sodium bicarbonate in my blood stream from brushing my teeth than from one of these vaccines.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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And it would be nice if my point was recognized, ...
It was recognized. But it is a very weak point. Sure, as a parent, I was aware that bad reactions to vaccination are possible. But the risk of that is miniscule, compared to the risk of the disease that the vaccination protects one against.
At the very least since there used to be mercury in some vaccines ...
Yes, but it was at a low level that was not a health concern. I am continuously exposed to mercury that is in the silver-mercury amalgam fillings in my teeth. But that's also at a low enough level to not concern me. The mercury in the atmosphere, from burning coal by electrical utilities, is probably a greater risk. Some sort of balanced perspective is needed. Just about anything is toxic at high enough levels.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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