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Author Topic:   Multiculturalism
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 6 of 1234 (737515)
09-26-2014 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by GDR
09-26-2014 11:02 AM


Re: Multiculturalism
GDR writes:
However as time goes by and you get to the second and third generations and beyond, IMHO it does become more of a melting pot as people's customs become more blended.
Once upon a time, a girl I worked with made a slightly racist remark. I said to her, "You have brown eyes. You're not white."
A lot of people in the Ku Klux Klan have brown eyes. I'm "whiter" than they are. I suspect that some day the Klan will include black people who hate whomever the enemy of the moment is.
Edited by ringo, : Changed 'whoever' to 'whomever'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by GDR, posted 09-26-2014 11:02 AM GDR has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 13 of 1234 (737526)
09-26-2014 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Jon
09-26-2014 1:30 PM


Re: Multiculturalism
Jon writes:
Is Multiculturalism the answer to this challenge?
There is no "the answer". We need multi-answers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Jon, posted 09-26-2014 1:30 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Jon, posted 09-26-2014 1:50 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 40 of 1234 (737588)
09-27-2014 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Jon
09-26-2014 1:50 PM


Re: Multiculturalism
Jon writes:
Do you see Multiculturalism being an answer, then?
I don't see multiculturalism as an "answer" or a strategy. I see it as a fact of life. Transportation has become fairly cheap and readily available so multiculturalism is inevitable.
Xenophobia is a philosophy which ignores the inevitable. "Melting pot" is a philosophy which aims to assimilate and homogenize, which might take centuries.
I do think that accepting the inevitable multiculturalism is the way to go rather than trying to "do something about it".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Jon, posted 09-26-2014 1:50 PM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-27-2014 2:41 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 41 of 1234 (737589)
09-27-2014 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Dr Adequate
09-26-2014 10:35 PM


Re: Multiculturalism
Dr A writes:
OK, what is the American culture?
Eating pizza and drinking Budweiser while watching Africans play football.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-26-2014 10:35 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 56 of 1234 (737693)
09-28-2014 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by New Cat's Eye
09-27-2014 2:41 PM


Re: Multiculturalism
Cat's Eye writes:
But I do think Jon has a point in separating that from the political ideology of promoting multiculturalism.
I agree. I view any political ideology with suspicion. Note the situation here in Canada where we have BI-lingualism promoted nationally (and French supremacy promoted militantly in Quebec). My grandparents spoke neither official language and got no help whatsoever in preserving their cultural heritage.
Cat's Eye writes:
I can also see the reluctance to dilute the "host" culture beyond recognition in an attempt to welcome a multitude of cultures.
I have no problem with diluting the host culture. Let it evolve naturally. Social engineering gives me the creeps, whether it's national policy or just part of the host culture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-27-2014 2:41 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Jon, posted 09-28-2014 3:43 PM ringo has replied
 Message 70 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-29-2014 10:53 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 61 of 1234 (737701)
09-28-2014 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by NoNukes
09-28-2014 3:28 PM


Re: Multiculturalism
NoNukes writes:
What would be the contrary position? For a car repair shop to insist on not fixing your car until you learn to speak English? For a business owner not to pander to potential clients?
In Quebec the French sign on your Chinese restaurant has to be bigger than the Chinese sign, even if all of your customers are Chinese who don't speak a word of French.
Edited by ringo, : Fixed English spelling of "Chinese". (Almost got it wrong again here.)

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 63 of 1234 (737703)
09-28-2014 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Jon
09-28-2014 3:43 PM


Re: Multiculturalism
Jon writes:
As I mentioned in another post, many of the students relied on attending English class to obtain certain financial assistance; so there is really no reason why a definite class start time could not be enforced.
What would be accomplished by enforcing the start time? Our culture could probably benefit from a less anal devotion to timeliness.
I once worked with a woman who was habitually five minutes "late" for work but she got as much done when she was there as anybody else. Our manager, though, in her infinite wisdom, spent more time chastening such "offenders" than the time they "wasted" by being late.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Jon, posted 09-28-2014 3:43 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Jon, posted 09-28-2014 4:28 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 66 of 1234 (737706)
09-28-2014 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Jon
09-28-2014 4:28 PM


Re: Multiculturalism
Jon writes:
I was making a point about "assisting groups outright in the practice of their native cultures", not about the societal benefits/negativities of punctuality.
Well, your point is pointy on both ends. While I don't approve of pointing society in the direction "we" want it to go, allowing groups to pracitice their culture may well have unanticipated benefits.
Forcing "us" to let "them" do what they do is not the same as forcing us to do something.

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 Message 64 by Jon, posted 09-28-2014 4:28 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 72 of 1234 (737747)
09-29-2014 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by New Cat's Eye
09-29-2014 10:53 AM


Re: Multiculturalism
Cat's Eye writes:
I wouldn't expect the city to change for me, I'd change for it.
To some extent we need to adjust to our society and to some extent it needs to adjust to us.
Attempting to enforce monculturalism in Quebec is probably doing them more harm than good. You might be willing to learn French "if you were moving there" but thousands have left because they are not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-29-2014 10:53 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-29-2014 11:59 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 82 by Jon, posted 09-29-2014 2:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 106 of 1234 (737805)
09-30-2014 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Jon
09-29-2014 2:22 PM


Re: Multiculturalism
Jon writes:
CatSci's experience in Montreal might better be seen as a case of Multiculturalism run a muck.
But it isn't multiculturalism; it's monoculturalism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Jon, posted 09-29-2014 2:22 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Jon, posted 09-30-2014 12:47 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 107 of 1234 (737806)
09-30-2014 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by New Cat's Eye
09-29-2014 12:00 PM


Re: Multiculturalism
Cat's Eye writes:
Jokes are funnier when they aren't non-sequiturs.
Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
A: Because it's standard procedure in the Chicken Intelligence Agency when you're being sequited.

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 114 of 1234 (737817)
09-30-2014 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Jon
09-30-2014 12:45 PM


Re: Evidence for Multiculturalism's Efficacy
Jon writes:
Why is French an official language in Canada?
The roots go back to 1759 when the British defeated the French in war but wanted to hedge their bets in peace.
Jon writes:
Isn't the case of French as an official language in Canada a specific example of policies that work against the natural tendency of assimilation and try to maintain linguistic (and perhaps cultural) diversity?
French was recognized because the British recognized that assimilation wouldn't work. There was no way to force a bunch of French people to stop being French. Trying to force them to be British would just have made them more loyal to France. Society would have been less cohesive, not more.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Jon, posted 09-30-2014 12:45 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Jon, posted 09-30-2014 1:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 117 of 1234 (737820)
09-30-2014 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Jon
09-30-2014 1:20 PM


Re: Evidence for Multiculturalism's Efficacy
Jon writes:
What is with the assumption that assimilation is always forced?
Who said "always"? I gave a specific example in reply to a specific question.
Jon writes:
I specifically asked: Couldn't Canada just get rid of the nonsense of official languages and let the natural course of things unfold?
I would support that. Maybe we could do it now and let the French language die - but that was not a viable option at the time for the reasons I mentioned.
Jon writes:
... that doesn't mean we have to officialize Multiculturalism in laws specifically meant to preserve it.
What do we have laws for except to protect parts of society from other parts of society? I don't have a problem with forced tolerance of other cultures.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Jon, posted 09-30-2014 1:20 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Jon, posted 09-30-2014 2:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 153 of 1234 (737878)
10-01-2014 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Jon
09-30-2014 12:47 PM


Re: Multiculturalism
Jon writes:
What are the official languages of Canada?
What percentage of Canadians speak those official languages?
What's your point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Jon, posted 09-30-2014 12:47 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 154 of 1234 (737880)
10-01-2014 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Jon
09-30-2014 2:05 PM


Re: Evidence for Multiculturalism's Efficacy
Jon writes:
Are you telling me that not having an official language then was impossible in Canada?
The British decided it was; trying to force the English language, the British legal system and the Church of England on the people of Quebec would have given them a French enemy in their back yard (their front yard at the time being the colonies which became the United States).
Jon writes:
ringo writes:
What do we have laws for except to protect parts of society from other parts of society? I don't have a problem with forced tolerance of other cultures.
But that's not what we're talking about, is it?
That's exactly what we're talking about. You seem to be complaining about laws forcing multiculturalism on you (though you're a little thin on concrete examples). I'm saying that the reason we have laws is to protect the majority (e.g. "law-biding people") from the minority (criminals) and to protect minorities from the majority. We do need laws to prevent you from putting up signs that say "No Irish" or "Whites Only". Unfortunately, we can also get laws that say, "You must speak French," which nobody here is in favour of, as far as I know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Jon, posted 09-30-2014 2:05 PM Jon has not replied

  
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