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Author | Topic: Multiculturalism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
Once upon a time, a girl I worked with made a slightly racist remark. I said to her, "You have brown eyes. You're not white." However as time goes by and you get to the second and third generations and beyond, IMHO it does become more of a melting pot as people's customs become more blended. A lot of people in the Ku Klux Klan have brown eyes. I'm "whiter" than they are. I suspect that some day the Klan will include black people who hate whomever the enemy of the moment is. Edited by ringo, : Changed 'whoever' to 'whomever'.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Jon writes:
There is no "the answer". We need multi-answers.
Is Multiculturalism the answer to this challenge?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
I don't see multiculturalism as an "answer" or a strategy. I see it as a fact of life. Transportation has become fairly cheap and readily available so multiculturalism is inevitable. Do you see Multiculturalism being an answer, then? Xenophobia is a philosophy which ignores the inevitable. "Melting pot" is a philosophy which aims to assimilate and homogenize, which might take centuries. I do think that accepting the inevitable multiculturalism is the way to go rather than trying to "do something about it".
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dr A writes:
Eating pizza and drinking Budweiser while watching Africans play football.
OK, what is the American culture?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Cat's Eye writes:
I agree. I view any political ideology with suspicion. Note the situation here in Canada where we have BI-lingualism promoted nationally (and French supremacy promoted militantly in Quebec). My grandparents spoke neither official language and got no help whatsoever in preserving their cultural heritage.
But I do think Jon has a point in separating that from the political ideology of promoting multiculturalism. Cat's Eye writes:
I have no problem with diluting the host culture. Let it evolve naturally. Social engineering gives me the creeps, whether it's national policy or just part of the host culture.
I can also see the reluctance to dilute the "host" culture beyond recognition in an attempt to welcome a multitude of cultures.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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NoNukes writes:
In Quebec the French sign on your Chinese restaurant has to be bigger than the Chinese sign, even if all of your customers are Chinese who don't speak a word of French. What would be the contrary position? For a car repair shop to insist on not fixing your car until you learn to speak English? For a business owner not to pander to potential clients? Edited by ringo, : Fixed English spelling of "Chinese". (Almost got it wrong again here.)
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Jon writes:
What would be accomplished by enforcing the start time? Our culture could probably benefit from a less anal devotion to timeliness. As I mentioned in another post, many of the students relied on attending English class to obtain certain financial assistance; so there is really no reason why a definite class start time could not be enforced. I once worked with a woman who was habitually five minutes "late" for work but she got as much done when she was there as anybody else. Our manager, though, in her infinite wisdom, spent more time chastening such "offenders" than the time they "wasted" by being late.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Well, your point is pointy on both ends. While I don't approve of pointing society in the direction "we" want it to go, allowing groups to pracitice their culture may well have unanticipated benefits. I was making a point about "assisting groups outright in the practice of their native cultures", not about the societal benefits/negativities of punctuality. Forcing "us" to let "them" do what they do is not the same as forcing us to do something.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
To some extent we need to adjust to our society and to some extent it needs to adjust to us. I wouldn't expect the city to change for me, I'd change for it. Attempting to enforce monculturalism in Quebec is probably doing them more harm than good. You might be willing to learn French "if you were moving there" but thousands have left because they are not.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
But it isn't multiculturalism; it's monoculturalism.
CatSci's experience in Montreal might better be seen as a case of Multiculturalism run a muck.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
Jokes are funnier when they aren't non-sequiturs. A: Because it's standard procedure in the Chicken Intelligence Agency when you're being sequited.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
The roots go back to 1759 when the British defeated the French in war but wanted to hedge their bets in peace.
Why is French an official language in Canada? Jon writes:
French was recognized because the British recognized that assimilation wouldn't work. There was no way to force a bunch of French people to stop being French. Trying to force them to be British would just have made them more loyal to France. Society would have been less cohesive, not more.
Isn't the case of French as an official language in Canada a specific example of policies that work against the natural tendency of assimilation and try to maintain linguistic (and perhaps cultural) diversity?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Who said "always"? I gave a specific example in reply to a specific question.
What is with the assumption that assimilation is always forced? Jon writes:
I would support that. Maybe we could do it now and let the French language die - but that was not a viable option at the time for the reasons I mentioned.
I specifically asked: Couldn't Canada just get rid of the nonsense of official languages and let the natural course of things unfold? Jon writes:
What do we have laws for except to protect parts of society from other parts of society? I don't have a problem with forced tolerance of other cultures.
... that doesn't mean we have to officialize Multiculturalism in laws specifically meant to preserve it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
What's your point?
What are the official languages of Canada? What percentage of Canadians speak those official languages?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
The British decided it was; trying to force the English language, the British legal system and the Church of England on the people of Quebec would have given them a French enemy in their back yard (their front yard at the time being the colonies which became the United States).
Are you telling me that not having an official language then was impossible in Canada? Jon writes:
That's exactly what we're talking about. You seem to be complaining about laws forcing multiculturalism on you (though you're a little thin on concrete examples). I'm saying that the reason we have laws is to protect the majority (e.g. "law-biding people") from the minority (criminals) and to protect minorities from the majority. We do need laws to prevent you from putting up signs that say "No Irish" or "Whites Only". Unfortunately, we can also get laws that say, "You must speak French," which nobody here is in favour of, as far as I know.
ringo writes:
But that's not what we're talking about, is it? What do we have laws for except to protect parts of society from other parts of society? I don't have a problem with forced tolerance of other cultures.
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