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Author Topic:   Multiculturalism
dwise1
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Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1224 of 1234 (765601)
08-01-2015 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1222 by Faith
08-01-2015 8:12 PM


Re: Christian capitalism and private property
Capitalism is not putting money above God. It's being a good steward of the provision God gives us, using money wisely. It involves a strict work ethic, and i8ncludes saving for future need and for giving to others.
To my knowledge, capitalism and capitalistic theory dates back to Adam Smith (1776 -- saw his statue in Edinburgh a few weeks ago). His ideas have been developed and perverted since then. I don't know how much of a role Christianity played in Smith's ideas and I see the question above as a matter of Christianity trying to come to terms with capitalism, which is as it should be (ie, as new ideas appear, Christian thought needs to take them into account and work out what to think about them and how to deal with them.).
The group of Christians who shared their possessions were the very earliest believers ...
Using the New Testament to work these things out would be problematic at best, since the NT source manuscripts would have been snapshots of early Christian communal life which would not necessarily reflect what was happening in Christian communities three centuries later when Emperor Constantine standardized the Christian standard and mandated the destruction of all divergent forms (AKA "heretics"). One book I had read described how Constantine obliterated the heretical churches and their writings. There was one Christian community in particular in the area of Galilee that was marked for total annihilation, apparently since they were the direct descendants of the original Jewish Church. And everything that all Reformationists are able to build back to as "original" is what Constantine had given us.
Earlier this month I was on a cruise around the UK. One woman on the cruise, Claire, was a Jewish woman born in Iraq whose family had to flee that country decades ago with those of her family who dared to return for their property being killed for their efforts. Be not so proud, Faith and consider the long history of pogroms that condemn Christian society over the centuries!
In Liverpool, she asked me how the earliest Church, which was clearly Jewish, had lost all that Jewishness -- IOW, she was viewing it as a straight linear progression. I tried to explain that it was the Gentile take-over of the religion. I was using Galatians as a classic example of the conflict between the Jewish Church, which required all converts to also become Jewish, with the new Gentile members who did not want their tips to be nipped (reference to scene in Mel Brooks' "Men in Tights") -- namely whether new male converts to Christianity should be required to be circumcised.
Anyway, at that point we had just reached a view of the Albert Docks across a lock-enclosed harbor in which the Planet Liverpool party ship as docked, so her attention immediately got sucked elsewhere.
Where I was wanting to go with that was to point out that there is a massive gap between circa 70 CE ("Common Era") and circa 300 CE. During more than 200 years, a wide variety of Christian churches and cults were able to come into existence, such that much of Constantine's efforts was to eliminate all those variants. The point that I was wanting to make was that it was not necessarily the actual heir of the original Christian church that won out, but rather one of those Gentile variants and that the actual heir of the original Christian church was ear-marked by Constantine for annihilation.
But all told, capitalism is not a Christian idea. Rather, the question is how Christianity can accommodate capitalism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1222 by Faith, posted 08-01-2015 8:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1225 by Faith, posted 08-01-2015 9:32 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1228 of 1234 (765606)
08-01-2015 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1225 by Faith
08-01-2015 9:32 PM


Re: Christian capitalism and private property
Pogroms are a Christian thing. Even Protestants committed them, as well as Orthodox churches (actual Orthodoxy, not your perverted orthodoxy).
Bunch of BS about Constantine.
There's lots of BS about Constantine, mainly from your camp.
Bottom line: in the few centuries between the purported Ministry and the Council of Nicea, a helluva lot of things and idea systems happened which resulted in a wide variety of Christian thought and their supporting Gospels. Constantine and the Council of Nicea decided by committee which of those were true and which were heresy. The "true" sources and churches were allowed to continue to operate, while the "false sources and churches were marked for extermination.
What part of that do you disagree with?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1225 by Faith, posted 08-01-2015 9:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1231 by Faith, posted 08-02-2015 2:43 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1229 of 1234 (765607)
08-01-2015 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1226 by Faith
08-01-2015 9:34 PM


Re: Christian capitalism and private property
Query: does what Max Weber wrote have anything to do with what Adam Smith wrote?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1226 by Faith, posted 08-01-2015 9:34 PM Faith has not replied

  
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