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Author Topic:   Creation
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1246 of 1358 (843710)
11-20-2018 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1241 by Arkangel Daniel
11-20-2018 4:44 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Daniel

Welcome to EvC.

Daniel writes:

Creation of the universe took 13 Billion years to make it look like it does today.

How do you know it took 13 billion years?

I believe creation of the universe took a lot longer than that. We have oil that is buried under over 5 miles of water and earth and is under 22,000 psi. Oil is called fossil fuel because it is made of decayed things. It took trillions trillions trillions of tons of material to produce the oil we have used and the reserves that still remain in the earth. The earth had to have the materials buried under the 5 + miles of overburden.

If you know how that could happen I would like to hear your input.

Daniel writes:

So creation is scientific and the process involves God's influence.

Creation is not a scientific process. Science is a study of the things in the universe that have been discovered with our limited knowledge and abilities about how God created the universe.

But most of the things you read about here and in books written about creation is based on assumptions. But very few facts.

If you have any facts about the origin of the universe and everything in it I would like to hear them.

Daniel writes:

The bible has a lot of inaccuracies and creation is one part that is in need to be fixed also there was never a talking snake or a tree with fruit that would make a person smarter.

Point out your inaccuracies of the original Hebrew and Greek text of the Bible. I would like to discuss them with you.

Animals talk. My cat tells us when we have not given her any attention for a spell. She tells us when her food is out and when her toilet needs cleaning. She even tell my wife when it is time to get up. So don't tell me animals don't talk.

As far as the tree making a person smarted you are depending on what the devil said to Eve through the serpent.

The man eating the fruit of the tree was disobedience of a command and because of his choosing to eat the fruit mankind was sentenced to death and was separated from God as God removed mankind from His Estate called the Garden of Eden.

That will do for starters.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1241 by Arkangel Daniel, posted 11-20-2018 4:44 AM Arkangel Daniel has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1252 by Arkangel Daniel, posted 11-20-2018 12:45 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1247 of 1358 (843712)
11-20-2018 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1244 by ringo
11-20-2018 10:47 AM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo

ringo writes:

The bible has a lot of inaccuracies and creation is one part that is in need to be fixed also there was never a talking snake or a tree with fruit that would make a person smarter.

You were the one telling someone to do something stupid, not me.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1244 by ringo, posted 11-20-2018 10:47 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1248 by ringo, posted 11-20-2018 11:09 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1248 of 1358 (843713)
11-20-2018 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1247 by ICANT
11-20-2018 11:03 AM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

The bible has a lot of inaccuracies and creation is one part that is in need to be fixed also there was never a talking snake or a tree with fruit that would make a person smarter.

You were the one telling someone to do something stupid, not me.

I don't know where you got that quote from but it doesn't sound like me. If you're going to argue about who's stupid, you should try not to make mistakes while doing it.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1247 by ICANT, posted 11-20-2018 11:03 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1249 of 1358 (843720)
11-20-2018 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1243 by ringo
11-20-2018 10:46 AM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo

ringo writes:

Anybody with any sense. Whole continents do not rise up out of the ocean in a few centuries. And we know THAT because we have dated items in the Americas that are older than the map.

Sea shells have been found on mountain tops. They have also been found 7 miles deep in the earth. If we back that deep hole up to where oil is found we have over a 10 mile fluctuation of the elevation of dry land as the material was deposited for producing the oil on the earth and then buried in the earth.

ringo writes:

Because, as I said, the Americas are not on it.

Why would they be on the map if there was only 1 piece of dry land mass surrounded by water? I didn't make the map it was made a long time ago by someone who had been around the land mass. Or had been told about it.

ringo writes:

And you should have no problem looking up what Hebrew scholars think. But you already know what Hebrew scholars think, don't you? You already know that your interpretation is an outlier, don't you?

I gave you the Hebrew Lexicon definitions and the uses of the words. I can't help it if you would rather have someone's opinion.

ringo writes:

The continents did NOT divide at any time during human history.

How do you make that determination. Just how do we know the continents have drifted apart? Just the facts please.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1243 by ringo, posted 11-20-2018 10:46 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1250 by ringo, posted 11-20-2018 11:37 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1250 of 1358 (843721)
11-20-2018 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1249 by ICANT
11-20-2018 11:28 AM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

Sea shells have been found on mountain tops. They have also been found 7 miles deep in the earth.


And they were put there long before there were any humans on earth.

ICANT writes:

Why would they be on the map if there was only 1 piece of dry land mass surrounded by water?


There hasn't been one single land mass at any time since humans have been around.

ICANT writes:

I didn't make the map it was made a long time ago by someone who had been around the land mass. Or had been told about it.


Or they made it up.

ICANT writes:

I gave you the Hebrew Lexicon definitions and the uses of the words. I can't help it if you would rather have someone's opinion.


I would rather have the opinion of actual Hebrew scholars - and I do. They're the ones who WROTE the Hebrew Lexicons, after all. Feel free to show us any Hebrew scholars who agree with you.

ICANT writes:

ringo writes:

The continents did NOT divide at any time during human history.


How do you make that determination. Just how do we know the continents have drifted apart?

We know how fast the continents are drifting. We know how long humans have been around. The math is pretty simple.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1249 by ICANT, posted 11-20-2018 11:28 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1251 of 1358 (843725)
11-20-2018 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1240 by Son of Man
11-20-2018 4:41 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Man

Son of Man writes:

I did say Genesis 1 to 2.2

I know you said that.

But the heavens and earth were created in Genesis 1:1.
Genesis 1:1 is a declarative statement of a completed action of the subject (God) of the verb being the heavens and the earth.

Since that took place in the beginning I do not know when that was. It could have been 13 billions years of duration according to how we measure duration with time.

Son of Man writes:

my meaning was if this isn't a future prologue why does it mention the creation of man and woman?

The man and woman created in the image and likeness of God in Genesis 1:27 is modern mankind. Having a mind, spirit, and flesh body just like God does. God the Father is all knowledge (our mind) God the Holy Spirit (the part of us that is eternal) and God the Son (our flesh body). God is manifest in 3 different ways but all are still just one as we are.

The man in Genesis 2:7 was not created but was formed from the dust of the ground like all the other creatures were. But this man was the first life form on earth.

But the book of Genesis was written about 3,000 years ago. As Moses spent 80 light periods (days) and 80 dark periods (nights) in the mount with God getting the information he was told to write in a book and place in the side of the ark.

Son of Man writes:

I don't understand were your going with your last statement 2.4 to 4.24 origin of the universe?

quote:
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Generations is a history of people, places, and things. So this verse declares to be the history of the heavens and earth "IN THE DAY"
God created them. God defined a light period as day and a dark period as night and combined they are called a day in Genesis 1:5. Which is determined by the rotation of the earth relative to the sun.

Since God is light (pure energy) the darkness found at Genesis 1:2 did not exist until created by God as stated in Isaiah 45:7.

We know that there was a light period that lasted for a very long duration in the early universe according to the CMBR.

Therefore all the events recorded in Genesis 2.4 to 4.24 took place in the same light period the heavens and the earth were created.

Man if you will click the peek mode on the right of the screen you can see how we put quotes in the message.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1240 by Son of Man, posted 11-20-2018 4:41 AM Son of Man has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1257 by Son of Man, posted 11-21-2018 5:44 AM ICANT has responded

    
Arkangel Daniel
Member
Posts: 20
Joined: 11-16-2018


Message 1252 of 1358 (843727)
11-20-2018 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1246 by ICANT
11-20-2018 11:00 AM


Re: Creation
Hi ICANT, the oil was placed under the ground it was a compound that was developed in Heaven by God and scientists in Heaven in order to help Humankind get access to petroleum and other by products. This was deliberate and in some places on Earth trenches were dug in various shapes and we poured oil into them so that people would know that there was oil under the ground at that location. Oil does not form from fossilisation it is a compound created and pumped into the ground by the Holy Spirit during the planets construction. There are big tank farms in Heaven where the compound was put together before its delivery to Earth. Angel's were sent to Earth to be scientists in order to add combustion, automobiles, flight and other technologies to the tech tree in order for Humankind to have a good life style and technology. Creation is a scientific process because God did not know everything when he was first created he had to learn how to create planets/stars and life through trial and error just like a scientist. The environment that God was created in was vacuum with zero gravity and he had to work from there to making a planet to live on (Heaven) and his life more comfortable. Heaven the planet originally had no atmosphere until God discovered a way to use gravity to form an atmosphere and then fill it with air.
My knowledge on creation is first hand, I am an Arkangel from Heaven and I assisted God with creation in the form of terraforming and the delivery of species to planets including this one. There are robots with artificial intelligence involved in the process of creation to commemorate this a representation was made on Easter island in the form of statues. The statue with the hat is the Holy Spirit who is living artificial intelligence, mine is to his left in the line.
Satan did not arrive on Earth until 400 years after Adam and Eve and it was as the result of an accident originally. Adam and Eve were never kicked out of Eden, they were Angel's from Heaven and were part of a team of 500 Angel's. Kane killed Able over a woman but the bible scriptures for the old testament were altered by Satan later after he possessed a Rabbi and put the snake into the story a long with a tree with smart fruit. (he killed anyone who disagreed with him)Training of Adam and Eve took place in a jungle and upon completion Adam, Eve, Kane, Able and everyone travelled to Earth by Spaceship to Earth to start history off in Belize. The technology brought with us included hunting, gathering, cooking, fishing, farming, survival, making clothing from animal skins. If this did not happen then Humankind would be eating one vegetable only and nothing else naked. Things to say about the planets construction, it has a shell which is in two halves inside is gravity element which provides gravity and atmosphere. There is also gravity element facing clockwise direction which provides planet rotation and this is a mechanical arrangement in order to provide planet tilt for seasons. Above the shell is layers of rock and then a layer of magma which is there to prevent people from digging into the shell otherwise it would destroy the planet. The magma has tiny wormholes connected to the suns atmosphere which provides heat to maintain a liquid state for the magma. With dinosaurs when they died we brought a spaceship in that carries soil and clay which then was spread over the bones in order to preserve them so that people could find something interesting to dig up later otherwise they break down on the surface over time. I am the Arkangel Daniel and I am from Heaven.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1246 by ICANT, posted 11-20-2018 11:00 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1253 by ICANT, posted 11-20-2018 5:23 PM Arkangel Daniel has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1253 of 1358 (843747)
11-20-2018 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1252 by Arkangel Daniel
11-20-2018 12:45 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Daniel

Daniel writes:

Hi ICANT, the oil was placed under the ground it was a compound that was developed in Heaven by God and scientists in Heaven

I wasn't expecting such a revelation as this. But rest assured it is the only one I have ever got as to how the oil got there under 22,000 PSI.

But according to your answer and explanation of all this information I can understand why Phat jumped on you a while back.

But I am a little confused as to this compound you reference as you said the oil was not made from fossils.

Could you explain how the plant and animal remains that produced the mixture of hundreds of different hydrocarbons molecules containing hydrogen and carbon got in the oil if it is a synthetic produced in a lab.

The rest of the post I won't touch with a ten foot pole.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1252 by Arkangel Daniel, posted 11-20-2018 12:45 PM Arkangel Daniel has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1254 by Coragyps, posted 11-20-2018 6:46 PM ICANT has responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5364
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1254 of 1358 (843751)
11-20-2018 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1253 by ICANT
11-20-2018 5:23 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT, the way that deep oil gets pressurized to 22,000 psi is by being around five miles beneath the surface. Rock is typically sort of heavy - like two and a half times as heavy as water or more - and that weight is borne by whatever is beneath this rock. If whats beneath is more rock with pore spaces containing fluid, the fluid can feel that weight. A foots depth of rock translates into approximately one pound per square inch. So 22,000 feet of rock can supply about 22,000 psi. Leaks from the reservoir will, of course, lower the fluid pressure. But there are reservoirs that get close to that ideal - Mahakam and Arun in Indonesia come to mind.

Edited by Coragyps, : Fumblefingers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1253 by ICANT, posted 11-20-2018 5:23 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1255 by ICANT, posted 11-20-2018 9:58 PM Coragyps has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1255 of 1358 (843752)
11-20-2018 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1254 by Coragyps
11-20-2018 6:46 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Coragyps

coragyps writes:

ICANT, the way that deep oil gets pressurized to 22,000 psi is by being around five miles beneath the surface.

Yes I understand why it is under the pressure which is caused by the overburden.

My question how did it get there since the pressure is 22,000 PSI at 5 miles.

Until recently we did not have equipment to pump that pressure. But that is what they do in fracking is replace the oil with water forcing the oil out of the ground.

Therefore the only way the matter could get 5 miles deep is through accretion. If you have a better way I would like to hear it.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1254 by Coragyps, posted 11-20-2018 6:46 PM Coragyps has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1256 by Coragyps, posted 11-20-2018 10:06 PM ICANT has responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5364
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1256 of 1358 (843753)
11-20-2018 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1255 by ICANT
11-20-2018 9:58 PM


Re: Creation
Sedimentation.
And occasionally a little tectonics.
But just sedimentation is the better way.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1255 by ICANT, posted 11-20-2018 9:58 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1259 by ICANT, posted 11-21-2018 12:44 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
Son of Man
Junior Member
Posts: 25
From: Ireland
Joined: 11-13-2018


Message 1257 of 1358 (843760)
11-21-2018 5:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1251 by ICANT
11-20-2018 12:29 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

But the heavens and earth were created in Genesis 1:1.
Genesis 1:1 is a declarative statement of a completed action of the subject (God) of the verb being the heavens and the earth.


you seem to make things in the Bible very complicated and struggle to justify their exact meaning, you have been taught the religious way which is to skip over certain facts as though they weren't there, I will ask you the same questions as I placed in another thread

who did Cain marry?
if it rains for forty days and nights where do you think the extra water comes from to flood the earth?


the first will be the last and the last will be the first.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1251 by ICANT, posted 11-20-2018 12:29 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1258 by ICANT, posted 11-21-2018 12:18 PM Son of Man has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1258 of 1358 (843785)
11-21-2018 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1257 by Son of Man
11-21-2018 5:44 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Man

Son of Man writes:

you seem to make things in the Bible very complicated

How many people have you talked too that has only one VERSE to cover the entire creation of the universe? Please give me their names or profile names and links to their conversations as I have never met even ONE.

Son of Man writes:

and struggle to justify their exact meaning,

I don't see it as a struggle. It is simple plain reading of the most original text we have available to study.

Son of Man writes:

you have been taught the religious way which is to skip over certain facts as though they weren't there

I have studied Biblical Hebrew and Greek since 1965 (53years). I have found only 1 person in the world that even agrees with parts of my view outside of my students.

So I am not mainstream.

Son of Man writes:

who did Cain marry?

One of his sisters, of course.

But you think because the Bible says, "And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived," while dwelling in the land of Nod that he found her there. It does not say he found her there it says "he knew her" (which means they had sex and she got pregnant) and "bear Enoch".

Son of Man writes:

if it rains for forty days and nights where do you think the extra water comes from to flood the earth?

Since there is only enough water in the atmosphere to cover the surface of the earth at any given time is only 1" it had to come from some place other than the atmosphere. That 1" increase is all you could get out of the atmosphere in 40 days and nights of rain or a 100 days and nights of rain. To get 1" of rain would require 1" of water to be removed from the face of the earth to produce 1" of rain every day.

The land mass of the earth was covered with water in Genesis 1:2.

Dry land rose up out of the water when the water was gathered in one place in Genesis 1:9.

So the water that had covered all the land mass in Genesis 1:2 that had receded somewhere so dry land could appear returned from the fountains of the deep to cover all land mass again.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1257 by Son of Man, posted 11-21-2018 5:44 AM Son of Man has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1260 by Son of Man, posted 11-22-2018 7:34 AM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6118
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1259 of 1358 (843793)
11-21-2018 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1256 by Coragyps
11-20-2018 10:06 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Coragyps

Coragyps writes:

But just sedimentation is the better way.

Isn't there lots of water in the ground where oil is found?

How did it get buried with only sedimentation.
How did the matter get covered quick enough so the process could take place of turning the matter into oil before it lost all energy to the water above it.

I think accretion would be better with mass from outer space colliding with the earth covering the matter as well as water.

The earth was formed by accretion over a very long duration, according to science.

But if God spoke the earth into existence and it was much smaller in diameter than it is now then added to the earth as life forms were produced and deposited in the marshes and bogs by meteorites bombarding the earth. Wouldn't that be a better way even if you wanted to leave God out of the equation? Problem is a few billion years would not be enough time as you would have to deal with life forms beginning to exist as well as the accretion of the planet from a gaseous disk.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1256 by Coragyps, posted 11-20-2018 10:06 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
Son of Man
Junior Member
Posts: 25
From: Ireland
Joined: 11-13-2018


Message 1260 of 1358 (843865)
11-22-2018 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1258 by ICANT
11-21-2018 12:18 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT
sorry I'm struggling with your answers, they don't make any logical sense at all. you don't struggle with it because that's what you are taught and that's what you believe, there must have been a point early in your life where none of it made sense or mattered to you, at that point you were open minded and now your not? You are basically saying that the whole of mankind are inbred? that the earth didn't flood but was compressed and made smaller and then somehow grew larger again forcing the land above the water? oil is created by shifting of the earths plates, that's why it is only found in seams it didn't cover the earth then more earth bury it?

can I ask what religion you are? and do you believe the Bible holds prophecies or not?

Edited by Son of Man, : Added ICANT


the first will be the last and the last will be the first.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1258 by ICANT, posted 11-21-2018 12:18 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1264 by ICANT, posted 11-27-2018 1:26 AM Son of Man has responded

  
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