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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9816
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 1036 of 1140 (816613)
08-08-2017 6:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1033 by marc9000
08-07-2017 10:16 PM


Re: Trump's accomplishments
n both cases, the president is given credit for many things he had nothing to do with. In free markets, political leadership has nothing to do with much that goes on.

I've already commented on most of these examples. Do you have any response? Is taking credit for stuff for which you have done nothing really an explanation of your support for Trump?

09. Pulled out of the lopsided 'Paris Accord'.

The Paris Accord did not obligate the US to do anything. The sole change is to make folk like you feel better. Apparently, it worked. We're going to be mining a lot of coal that more and more people in the world simply do not want.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1033 by marc9000, posted 08-07-2017 10:16 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1039 by Phat, posted 08-08-2017 11:41 AM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 1044 by marc9000, posted 08-08-2017 8:36 PM NoNukes has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 3901
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1037 of 1140 (816619)
08-08-2017 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1033 by marc9000
08-07-2017 10:16 PM


Re: Trump's accomplishments
No response to the discussions of your list items.

As expected.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1033 by marc9000, posted 08-07-2017 10:16 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1714
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1038 of 1140 (816621)
08-08-2017 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1034 by marc9000
08-07-2017 10:19 PM


Re: It's a hard life for little snowflakes.
Or, like in my case, I used to see America as a beacon of hope. After Trump I look at other countries for more rational and coherent policies.

History shows empires and superpowers and all that have limited time spans. Some last longer than others. The US is rapidly on it's way out.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1034 by marc9000, posted 08-07-2017 10:19 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1045 by marc9000, posted 08-08-2017 8:39 PM Pressie has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9594
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1039 of 1140 (816623)
08-08-2017 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1036 by NoNukes
08-08-2017 6:59 AM


Trump's accomplishments or the lack thereof
The Paris Accord did not obligate the US to do anything. The sole change is to make folk like you feel better. Apparently, it worked. We're going to be mining a lot of coal that more and more people in the world simply do not want.

This was in the NY Times just today:
Scientists Fear Trump Will Dismiss Blunt Climate Report

The article states:

quote:
The draft report by scientists from 13 federal agencies, which has not yet been made public, concludes that Americans are feeling the effects of climate change right now. It directly contradicts claims by President Trump and members of his cabinet who say that the human contribution to climate change is uncertain and that the ability to predict the effects is limited.

“Evidence for a changing climate abounds, from the top of the atmosphere to the depths of the oceans,” a draft of the report states. A copy of it was obtained by The New York Times.


It seems the article was released before it could be edited..perhaps...by the current administration.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1036 by NoNukes, posted 08-08-2017 6:59 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1046 by marc9000, posted 08-08-2017 8:49 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9816
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1040 of 1140 (816639)
08-08-2017 5:49 PM


Writing checks with your mouth, that your butt cannot cash..
Trump announced this threat to North Korea today...

quote:
North Korea best not make any more threats to the US. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.

Exactly what will the US do if North Korea makes more verbal threats or launches another missile?

Trump made his threat in response to a Washington Post report, citing US intelligence officials that North Korea had successfully miniaturized a nuclear payload to fit on an ICBM.

North Korea made threats to the US as recently as yesterday. You can expect them to continue the rhetoric after which Trump will do what exactly? Post more insults to Twitter?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


Replies to this message:
 Message 1043 by NoNukes, posted 08-08-2017 8:13 PM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 1047 by marc9000, posted 08-08-2017 9:02 PM NoNukes has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9816
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1041 of 1140 (816640)
08-08-2017 6:31 PM


Trump solutions to the opioid epidemic...
http://www.cnn.com/...trump-opioid-briefing-abuse/index.html

More drug war!! Lock Grandma up!!

quote:
President Donald Trump said Tuesday a stronger law enforcement response is needed to combat the opioid crisis, speaking at his New Jersey golf club and flanked by Secretary of Health and Human Services Tom Price and acting Director of National Drug Control Policy Richard Baum.

Just say No!!

quote:
Trump also advocated for more abstinence-based treatment to combat the opioid crisis.

"The best way to prevent drug addiction and overdose is to prevent people from abusing drugs in the first place. If they don't start, they won't have a problem. If they do start, it's awfully tough to get off," Trump said.


I suppose that this is what is left when drug treatment and other health care is completely off the table.

quote:
First lady Melania Trump, White House chief of staff John Kelly and other top Trump aides -- Jared Kushner, Kellyanne Conway and Reed Cordish -- also attended the briefing.

Problem solved. Next?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


Replies to this message:
 Message 1042 by Taq, posted 08-08-2017 6:47 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7034
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 1042 of 1140 (816642)
08-08-2017 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1041 by NoNukes
08-08-2017 6:31 PM


Re: Trump solutions to the opioid epidemic...
NoNukes writes:

More drug war!! Lock Grandma up!!

When will Republicans realize that punishing people for an addiction does not cure addiction, especially when that punishment makes it harder for people to get a good job?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1041 by NoNukes, posted 08-08-2017 6:31 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9816
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1043 of 1140 (816644)
08-08-2017 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1040 by NoNukes
08-08-2017 5:49 PM


Re: Writing checks with your mouth, that your butt cannot cash..
NoNukes writes:

You can expect them to continue the rhetoric after which Trump will do what exactly?

As expected, more threats from North Korea:

quote:
North Korea's military is "examining the operational plan" to strike areas around Guam with medium-to-long-range strategic ballistic missiles, state-run news agency KCNA said early Wednesday local time.

The threat comes just hours after US President Donald Trump warned Pyongyang that if they continued to threaten the US, they would "face fire and fury like the world has never seen."



Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1040 by NoNukes, posted 08-08-2017 5:49 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
marc9000
Member
Posts: 906
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1044 of 1140 (816645)
08-08-2017 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1036 by NoNukes
08-08-2017 6:59 AM


Re: Trump's accomplishments
I've already commented on most of these examples. Do you have any response?

It's an effort, but let me see what I can do.

05. Consumer confidence highest since 2000 at index 125.6 - continued trend from Obama era; not a plus since Trump has not implemented any economic policy to speak of

"To speak of" - let me speak of it a little bit. He's not a threat to implement new big government programs to anywhere near the extent that any of today's crop of Democrats would. So do you think consumer confidence would be the same today under a Hillary presidency?

What do you think is easier for someone who takes risks/creates jobs? Facing a Democrat administration with its unpredictable likelihood of new regulations on business, or facing a Republican administration that is more likely to let the economy work with less government interference, more predictable and slower changing free market trends, that allows him to plan for the future?

Consumer confidence wasn't anywhere near what it is today in 2009, the same 7+ month point in the Obama administration. Confidence increased during the Obama administration (with a Republican congress and senate) in spite of him, not because of him.

The Paris Accord did not obligate the US to do anything. The sole change is to make folk like you feel better.

What was its purpose then? To make Democrats feel better? Maybe because it was a small first step for more big government?

We're going to be mining a lot of coal that more and more people in the world simply do not want.

Coal isn't mined for no reason. If there's no demand, there is no supply. Free markets work really well in some cases.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1036 by NoNukes, posted 08-08-2017 6:59 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1048 by NoNukes, posted 08-08-2017 9:38 PM marc9000 has responded
 Message 1053 by JonF, posted 08-09-2017 11:21 AM marc9000 has responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 906
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 1045 of 1140 (816646)
08-08-2017 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1038 by Pressie
08-08-2017 8:56 AM


Re: It's a hard life for little snowflakes.
Or, like in my case, I used to see America as a beacon of hope.

Hope for what? What benefit to your country do you see from an Obama/Hillary presidency over a Trump presidency?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1038 by Pressie, posted 08-08-2017 8:56 AM Pressie has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 906
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 1046 of 1140 (816647)
08-08-2017 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1039 by Phat
08-08-2017 11:41 AM


Re: Trump's accomplishments or the lack thereof
From your link;

quote:
The report concludes that even if humans immediately stopped emitting greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, the world would still feel at least an additional 0.50 degrees Fahrenheit (0.30 degrees Celsius) of warming over this century compared with today. The projected actual rise, scientists say, will be as much as 2 degrees Celsius.

So in the year 2100, the planet will be 2 degrees Celsius warmer. I'm very concerned. I wonder what the national debt will be by then?

What this means then, is no matter how much the EPA strips U.S. citizens of their liberty and money, climate change will continue, and those government officials and scientists who made those decisions will face no accountability for their actions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1039 by Phat, posted 08-08-2017 11:41 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1054 by JonF, posted 08-09-2017 11:24 AM marc9000 has not yet responded
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 906
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 1047 of 1140 (816648)
08-08-2017 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1040 by NoNukes
08-08-2017 5:49 PM


Re: Writing checks with your mouth, that your butt cannot cash..
Exactly what will the US do if North Korea makes more verbal threats or launches another missile?

I can't think of anyone I'd rather have than Trump as president if North Korea succeeds in destroying any part of the U.S. with a nuclear warhead. Except maybe Harry Truman. As a Democrat, Truman could handle the problem without the same news media frenzy that Trump would have to face.

But to answer your question, the U.S. military has some pretty pinpoint-accurate hardware that could possibly vaporize only a large enough area to make SURE the fat man doesn't survive. Would that make you sad?

North Korea made threats to the US as recently as yesterday. You can expect them to continue the rhetoric after which Trump will do what exactly? Post more insults to Twitter?

So you have nothing bad to say about Kim Jong Un? Most of the Democrat news media doesn't seem to have a problem with him either. This evening ABC WORLD NEWS TONIGHT WITH DAVID MUIR breathlessly reported that a new ABC poll shows that 60 some-odd percent of U.S. citizens are "uneasy" about Trumps ability to handle the North Korean threat. I guess the poll question was "are you uneasy about Trump's ability to deal with North Korea?" Whereas, if Obama/Hillary were president the question would have been worded differently. "Are you uneasy about the North Korean threat to the U.S.? Fake news marches on.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1040 by NoNukes, posted 08-08-2017 5:49 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1049 by NoNukes, posted 08-08-2017 9:41 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 1051 by NoNukes, posted 08-09-2017 12:14 AM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 1055 by JonF, posted 08-09-2017 11:28 AM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 1056 by JonF, posted 08-09-2017 11:32 AM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 1057 by Taq, posted 08-09-2017 11:33 AM marc9000 has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9816
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
Message 1048 of 1140 (816649)
08-08-2017 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1044 by marc9000
08-08-2017 8:36 PM


Re: Trump's accomplishments
So do you think consumer confidence would be the same today under a Hillary presidency?

Consumer confidence is on the same trend it was on before Trump took office.
At some point, you are going to have to accept that Hilary is not the president.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1044 by marc9000, posted 08-08-2017 8:36 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1059 by marc9000, posted 08-09-2017 8:02 PM NoNukes has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9816
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 1049 of 1140 (816650)
08-08-2017 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1047 by marc9000
08-08-2017 9:02 PM


Re: Writing checks with your mouth, that your butt cannot cash..
But to answer your question, the U.S. military has some pretty pinpoint-accurate hardware that could possibly vaporize only a large enough area to make SURE the fat man doesn't survive. Would that make you sad

I know that you are not twelve years old. Surely you don't believe that such an action would have no negative consequences for us or our allies.

But you've given me something to be thankful for. At least you are not in charge of the armed forces of this country.

can't think of anyone I'd rather have than Trump as president if North Korea succeeds in destroying any part of the U.S. with a nuclear warhead.

Uh, the goal is not to get a nuclear war started, right? I cannot think of a single civilian that would make a great command in chief for a nuclear war. But Trump? really?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1047 by marc9000, posted 08-08-2017 9:02 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1050 by dwise1, posted 08-08-2017 11:02 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 2914
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(5)
Message 1050 of 1140 (816652)
08-08-2017 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1049 by NoNukes
08-08-2017 9:41 PM


Re: Writing checks with your mouth, that your butt cannot cash..
But you've given me something to be thankful for. At least you{, marc9000,} are not in charge of the armed forces of this country.

But somebody equally moronic is. No, I take that back. Somebody even more moronic. And unstable.

I remember when Dubya Bush first got in. Next drill weekend a fellow chief, a Religious Programs CPO (RPC), expressed his excitement that a born-again Christian was in the White House. I pointed out that that would mean that we have a believer in the Apocalypse with the power to bring about the Apocalypse. Suddenly he was no longer as excited.

marc9000 writes:

But to answer your question, the U.S. military has some pretty pinpoint-accurate hardware that could possibly vaporize only a large enough area to make SURE the fat man doesn't survive.

He should have talked with a veteran first before launching into that fantasy. Yes, we do have some ordinance that is very accurate. For example, there's the B-52. Still servicing long after retirement age and it still hits its target 100% of the time, the ground. Now, does the asset that we want to destroy happen to be where the bombs fall? We don't know; that depends on intelligence, on knowing where the targeted asset actually happens to be.

Add to that collateral damage. In every attack, especially in civilian environments, there is always collateral damage. How much collateral damage is acceptable in order to get that one single asset you are after? Take out an entire building that you think he's in? Take out an entire city that you think he's in? Blanket an entire country that you think he's in? And if he's hunkered down in a hardened shelter that can survive a blanket attack, how do you ensure that you still get him?

Veterans are aware of those things. It's part of our training, a part of our way of life. Things that we think about a lot. All civilians know is what they see in the movies, the action flicks. It's like trying to learn about evolution by watching X-Men movies or learning about science by watching other really bad sci-fi B-movies. They just fill your head with bullshit. Comic book level mentality. Sgt Fury and his Howling Commandos!

Plus, in the real world actions have consequences. You nuke another country and then you have to deal with its allies. Have you ever heard of World War One? Entangling alliances all over the Continent and then some Serbian hot-head shoots an Austrian archduke. Blackadder sums it up rather nicely at Blackadder How did World War I Begin ... paraphrasing, but you can listen to the original at that link: "The idea was to have two vast opposing armies, each acting as the other's deterrent ensuring that there could never be a war. But there was a flaw in the plan. It was complete bollocks."

So we nuke all of North Korea. What happens next? They had allies, so those allies attack us (not to mention what licks North Korea can get in during the initial action). So we attack them. Then their allies attack us. And so on and so forth. Where does that stop?

Stupid civilians like marc9000 never get that far, but veterans do. We think about those things. It's part of our professional experience. Those stupid civilians seem to never understand that every scenario involves people dying, innocent people dying.

Here's a little secret. Veterans want to survive. We are ready to serve and make the ultimate sacrifice, but we also want to live to tell the story. Send us into a necessary war and we will go because it is necessary. Send us into complete bullshit and we will still go because it is our duty, but it's going to play hell on our morale.

But it seems that stupid civilians like marc9000 can never understand what's at stake. All they know are the action movies. We need to get them all to serve so that they can learn what's what.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1049 by NoNukes, posted 08-08-2017 9:41 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1061 by marc9000, posted 08-09-2017 8:13 PM dwise1 has responded

    
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