Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 114 (8734 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 03-28-2017 4:13 AM
432 online now:
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: timtak
Post Volume:
Total: 802,060 Year: 6,666/21,208 Month: 2,427/2,634 Week: 90/525 Day: 5/60 Hour: 0/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
4647
48
49505152Next
Author Topic:   Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response
Pollux
Member
Posts: 184
Joined: 11-13-2011


Message 706 of 779 (799548)
02-10-2017 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 694 by Rrhain
02-10-2017 9:12 PM


Re: Extreme Vetting
To be fair, the quote from Luke is from a parable, and one should be careful in taking every part of a parable literally.
Of course this does not negate the other killing admonitions in the Bible.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 694 by Rrhain, posted 02-10-2017 9:12 PM Rrhain has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9333
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 707 of 779 (799549)
02-10-2017 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 628 by ringo
02-10-2017 10:42 AM


Re: jurisdiction
It isn't black and white. The court has to decide on a shade of gray. That's mitigation.

One, that is not mitigation. It is an adjudication of whether or not the claim of self- defense is viable. US law requires exactly the same adjudication, but with less deferring to defendants. (Yes there are some states with more extreme doctrines such as Stand your ground). Since what you say now does not distinguish Canadian law from the law in the US, it is clearly not what you were talking about.

Mitigation, as you described it, is a lessening of culpability and punishment rather than an excusal from punishment. Justification, which is what Canada law offers, is complete excusal of criminal punishment for your actions.

Justification is not an eraser.

It does remove all criminal punishment. Maybe it does not ease your conscience.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_self-defense

"Justification does not make a criminal use of force lawful; if the use of force is justified, it cannot be criminal at all."

Do you have anything to offer other than assertion? So far it looks like I provide facts, and you just say stuff.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 628 by ringo, posted 02-10-2017 10:42 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 713 by ringo, posted 02-11-2017 10:47 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 23978
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 708 of 779 (799550)
02-10-2017 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 701 by Rrhain
02-10-2017 9:40 PM


Re: Extreme Vetting
I'm sorry, I've answered this stuff so many times I'm just weary of it. Maybe I'll get a second wind and come back to it but right now it's asking too much, especially when nothing I say matters one iota to anyone here. Way too much to ask.

Just for a sketch:

The Bible passages are HISTORY. The first one is God's Law as He gave it to Israel. It is telling them how to deal with violations of the Law. It is not talking to the reader of the Bible; it is an instruction for the elders of Israel to apply to specific circumstances.
Deuteronomy is also instruction to ancient Israel.

Luke is telling us the spiritual consequence of behavior. Not telling anyone to DO anything at all.

NO, THE BIBLE DOES NOT ORDER ANYONE TO KILL. The Old testament REPORTS on what GOD ordered people to do in ancient times.

The Koran DOES give instructions TO THE READER, to attack and kill people NOW.

You could learn something if you took what I'm saying seriously. All you are doing is regurgitating antichristian dogma.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 701 by Rrhain, posted 02-10-2017 9:40 PM Rrhain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 718 by Rrhain, posted 02-11-2017 9:46 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18241
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 709 of 779 (799570)
02-11-2017 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 650 by NosyNed
02-10-2017 2:50 PM


Re: Rule of Law - a little rebellion is necessary...
Americans, particularly, worry about despotism and often feel that they need to be armed to be able to prevent it.

Maybe it's time to update this little document ...

quote:
Declaration of Independence

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.


quote:
A little rebellion...

... The second state(a) has a great deal of good in it. The mass of mankind under that enjoys a precious degree of liberty and happiness. It has it’s evils too: the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject. But weigh this against the oppressions of monarchy, and it becomes nothing. Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem(b). Even this evil is productive of good. It prevents the degeneracy of government, and nourishes a general attention to the public affairs. I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccesful rebellions indeed generally establish the incroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is a medecine necessary for the sound health of government." - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Paris, January 30, 17872

(a) "... governments wherein the will of every one has a just influence, ... "

(b) "I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." (also rendered as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."


Indeed small rebellions have resulted in greater good, with women's liberation, civil rights, etc. What we are seeing now is rebellion on a large scale that has been fermenting for a while. Trump elected because of rebellion against the status quo, protests against Trump to rein in his grab for power and restore the constitutional rule of law.

But this doesn't solve - or even attack - the root causes behind current economic situations for working people: income inequality and loss of true wages for any but the ultra rich. The congress buckling under the rule of corporations to dictate laws and regulations.

This will necessitate a rebellion on a larger scale than any seen recently, if not a second revolution. Power does not give up power willingly.

It appears some individual here are having trouble understanding what a nation is. As an example, The USA is not it's lakes mountains and B-52s.

Curiously, I like to think about a "Virtual America" that exists without arbitrary geographic borders or delineations: a country of the mind founded on freedom, liberty, respect for fellow humans, justice, equality under the law, pursuit of happiness and basic human rights (see UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights for a start).

This "Virtual America" has no restrictions on membership, all humans are eligible, it is voluntary, and nobody can revoke your citizenship or take it away from you.

I give my allegiance to these basic concepts
For all people: To the pursuit of happiness,
To freedom, liberty, equality, respect, and justice,
And to preserving our inalienable human rights

Welcome


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 650 by NosyNed, posted 02-10-2017 2:50 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 710 by Faith, posted 02-11-2017 10:31 AM RAZD has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 23978
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 710 of 779 (799573)
02-11-2017 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 709 by RAZD
02-11-2017 9:33 AM


Leftist Utopian Dreams are really a horrific nightmare for humanity
The idealism of the Left which is expressed in that post can only give a biblically taught Christian deep despair for America and the world, because the reality of evil is completely denied in it. And that gives evil great power to proliferate, and especially to express itself through that very misguided idealism. Communism for instance sounds good on paper, but in reality it can't exist without murdering people, because all utopian systems try to squash reality into a small box that leaves more of reality outside. But since the utopia is held with fervor that reality has to be exterminated to bring it about. THEN will come the Perfect Society. Etc etc etc.

I keep having this ...feeling? ...  concern? ... premonition? ...paranoia?  ... that because of the extreme opposition to Trump the hope his election gave so many of us may still go down in flames.  A hope, ironically enough, for the very values the Left thinks it represents but doesn't.  The Left and the powers behind the Left may yet succeed in defeating this surge of goodness and hope for a renewal of prosperity, national strength and unity, and Constitutional liberty, and bring about their globalist tyranny over once-sovereign America, and in fact the world.  Partly because there are truly malevolent forces on the Left that the Left refuses to recognize, but also because of this sort of idealism that misreads what it takes to establish freedom in a fallen world.

Since we've gone from any semblance of "peaceful transference of power" to violent methods of opposing the elected political position with no signs of remorse or intention of de-escalating, Trump would have to have supernatural ability to continue as he has been doing.  He talks of God but I don't know how much of a believer he really is -- fairly superficial at this point I would think but maybe he's learning that what he's up against is bigger than politics and bigger than even prodigious human strength can deal with.  I hope he prays, as many of us are praying for him.  He may be able to continue for some time yet, and I hope so, but already he looks terribly tired in his pictures.  He has bags under his eyes he didn't have a short time ago.
 
The point of all this is that although God is certainly giving us a reprieve in Trump, judgment on America and on all the nations of the world is still proceeding and may finally lead sooner than we'd anticipated to the globalist nightmare we Trump supporters have been hoping to stop.  Biblical prophecy tells us it has to come sometime, and the signs have been growing for decades that it is getting closer every day, and reached some kind of peak with Obama, but the Trump win and Brexit and other signs of nations reclaiming some of their lost sovereignty seemed to promise a stay of execution at least for a while.  But the forces of evil -- that are mistaken for good these days -- are not only not going away, they seem to be gathering power. Evil power. In some cases in the name of good.

I hope I'm wrong.  I hope the true hope lasts.  I just keep having this...foreboding.

Of course it's not a foreboding for most at EvC.  Anything that would turn back Trump's win would be welcome, as it would be for the Left in general, because he's considered to be the evil that needs to be stopped.  And besides, anyone who talks as I am talking here is obviously not to be taken seriously.

Upshot:  Maybe, just maybe, the world is about to take a turn into the "Great Tribulation" or "The Day of the Lord" when God's wrath descends on the planet with unprecedented horrors and destruction for some period before the Lord Jesus returns.

I've never been completely convinced of the theology of the "Pre-Tribulation Rapture," but I've been even less convinced of other end times theologies.  And I recently read a book about the Rapture (author Billy Crone) that resolved many of my doubts -- not all but many.  Enough in any case to go with it provisionally for now.

America is no doubt the highest profile nation in the world, and the name Trump has an awfully biblical sound to it. 

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Hint? Omen? I don't know, I just keep having this foreboding because of the way the world has been going.

That passage is considered to be THE prophecy of the pre-Tribulation Rapture. The Rapture is expected to come unexpectedly, suddenly, without warning, taking "the Bride of Christ" off the planet to be with Him forever. That is a wonderful thing for me and other believers; not so much those who have rejected Christ.

The Rapure is to usher in a seven-year period when the world that is left behind goes through the Great Tribulation or God's Wrath or the Day of the Lord. A horrible time not to be wished on anyone. And since I have unsaved family I don't want to see them go through it.

But for the sake of those who will go through it, listen up: If this prophecy is true there will be a huge number of people saved during it, at great cost, through enormous suffering, but saved for eternal life by believing the gospel you refused to believe before. Beheadings will be one of the horrors. (Most of this is in the Book of Revelation), and beheadings are of course a hallmark of Islam. Islam is pretty much already set up to play such a role if all this comes down soon. And of course as I keep saying, I believe the Pope is what the Protestant reformers said he is: the Antichrist. Islam and the RCC are linked in some biblical symbols as the two halves of the revived Roman Empire that is to rule the world at the end. And it's not going to be your happy "American" utopia, that's for sure.

(Huge numbers of Catholics and Muslims will of course be saved}

But maybe Soros is the Antichrist instead. Or somebody else. In any case the Pope is going to be right up there with him/

One good thing in all that is that the Great Tribulation is to exist for a particular period of time, after which Jesus will return. It is possible to calculate that time from biblical prophecy in the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation. The Rapture is to come unexpectedly, as "a thief in the night," but the Second Coming will come according to a biblically given time frame.

"Repent and believe the gospel" is always the way to salvation and it would be better to do it now rather than wait to go through the Great Tribulation.

But maybe the Rapture won't come for a long time yet. Maybe my forebodings are premature.

Laugh away, poor EvC.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 709 by RAZD, posted 02-11-2017 9:33 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 711 by RAZD, posted 02-11-2017 10:33 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 712 by jar, posted 02-11-2017 10:44 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18241
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(4)
Message 711 of 779 (799574)
02-11-2017 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 710 by Faith
02-11-2017 10:31 AM


Re: Leftist Utopian Dreams are really a horrific nightmare for humanity
Extremist right wing babble not worth detailed reply.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 710 by Faith, posted 02-11-2017 10:31 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28437
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 712 of 779 (799577)
02-11-2017 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 710 by Faith
02-11-2017 10:31 AM


Re: Leftist Utopian Dreams are really a horrific nightmare for humanity
Faith writes:

Anything that would turn back Trump's win would be welcome, as it would be for the Left in general, because he's considered to be the evil that needs to be stopped.

Not at all true. I don't think Trump is seen as necessarily evil, just really stupid; woefully ignorant, narcissistic, greedy, not really acceptable for polite company as my momma would say.

If there is an antichrist though il Donald certainly fits all the characteristics far more than anyone else in prominence today.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 710 by Faith, posted 02-11-2017 10:31 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 713 of 779 (799579)
02-11-2017 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 707 by NoNukes
02-10-2017 10:21 PM


Re: jurisdiction
NoNukes writes:

Justification, which is what Canada law offers, is complete excusal of criminal punishment for your actions.


Maybe you can give some examples of where that has ever happened.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 707 by NoNukes, posted 02-10-2017 10:21 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 714 by Tangle, posted 02-11-2017 11:04 AM ringo has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4410
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 714 of 779 (799581)
02-11-2017 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 713 by ringo
02-11-2017 10:47 AM


Re: jurisdiction
ringo writes:

Maybe you can give some examples of where that has ever happened.

Well there's quite a few here:

http://www.cbc.ca/...acceptable-under-canadian-law-1.1229180

But I don't know why you're still pursuing this; the self-defence defence is fairly standard in most jusidictions. If you can show that you acted to protect yourself you either won't be charged or you'll be found not guilty at trial. But you must be acting reasonably and not excessively.

If you do act beyond what is reasonable you may be able to mitigate your sentence by demonstrating that 'he started it' or 'I lost my temper and couldn't control myself' etc But you're still guilty of assault or worse.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 713 by ringo, posted 02-11-2017 10:47 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 715 by ringo, posted 02-11-2017 11:16 AM Tangle has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 715 of 779 (799583)
02-11-2017 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 714 by Tangle
02-11-2017 11:04 AM


Re: jurisdiction
Tangle writes:

Well there's quite a few here:

http://www.cbc.ca/...acceptable-under-canadian-law-1.1229180


quote:
Prosecutors later dropped the kidnapping and weapons charges against Chen and his two employees, but went ahead with the other charges in which the three men were eventually found not guilty.

That's not letting them off scot-free; it's pursuing a lesser charge.

Tangle writes:

If you can show that you acted to protect yourself you either won't be charged or you'll be found not guilty at trial. But you must be acting reasonably and not excessively.


Yes, BUT. If you can not convince the court that you acted reasonably - and the onus is on YOU - you can be convicted of a lesser charge.

Tangle writes:

If you do act beyond what is reasonable you may be able to mitigate your sentence by demonstrating that 'he started it' or 'I lost my temper and couldn't control myself' etc But you're still guilty of assault or worse.


That's exactly what I'm saying.

Tangle writes:

But I don't know why you're still pursuing this....


I'm not pursuing anything. I'm being pursued.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 714 by Tangle, posted 02-11-2017 11:04 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 716 by Tangle, posted 02-11-2017 12:53 PM ringo has responded
 Message 717 by Modulous, posted 02-11-2017 1:14 PM ringo has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4410
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 716 of 779 (799589)
02-11-2017 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 715 by ringo
02-11-2017 11:16 AM


Re: jurisdiction
ringo writes:

That's not letting them off scot-free

It is you know :-) it's about establishing guilt or otherwise according to the principles of the law. It's a binary choice. Guilty or not guilty.

Reasonable self-defence is a statutary defence in law. To succeed at trial for a not-guilty verdict the defence has to show that reasonable force was used. That's it. If they can do that, the verdict is not guilty. Nothing to do with mitigation.

Yes, BUT. If you can not convince the court that you acted reasonably - and the onus is on YOU - you can be convicted of a lesser charge.

No, this is just wrong. You are charged with an offense of say, assault, tried for the offence of assault and found either guilty or not guilty of assault.

Sometimes you can be charged and tried for say, murder or manslaughter. The successful statutory defence of self defence would find you not guilty of both. The charge would not drop from murder to manslaughter. The lessor charge of manslauter would normally be chosen by the jury only if the prosecution failed to prove a different element of the offence, usually intent - he killed him, but he didn't mean to.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

I think you're confusing being charged and found guilty or not guilty at trial, with what happens after you've been found guilty and are being sentenced. The first involves the statutory defence of self-defence which can get you off 'scot-free' the second is mitigation which is used by your brilliant lawyer to reduce the sentence because the jury didn't believe that tying your attacker to a chair and attaching an arc welder to his testicles was reasonable self-defence..

I'm not pursuing anything. I'm being pursued.

That's life here I guess :-)

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 715 by ringo, posted 02-11-2017 11:16 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 719 by ringo, posted 02-12-2017 1:19 PM Tangle has responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7388
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 717 of 779 (799592)
02-11-2017 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 715 by ringo
02-11-2017 11:16 AM


Re: jurisdiction
If you do act beyond what is reasonable you may be able to mitigate your sentence by demonstrating that 'he started it' or 'I lost my temper and couldn't control myself' etc But you're still guilty of assault or worse.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Provocation is mitigatory.
Self-defence is exculpatory.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 715 by ringo, posted 02-11-2017 11:16 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 720 by ringo, posted 02-12-2017 1:22 PM Modulous has responded

    
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6080
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 718 of 779 (799612)
02-11-2017 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 708 by Faith
02-10-2017 10:47 PM


Re: Extreme Vetting
Faith responds to me:

quote:
I'm sorry, I've answered this stuff so many times I'm just weary of it.

No, you haven't. You may have written words after clicking the "Reply" button, but you have never "answered" this stuff. That requires actually reading the material and making a logical response that has something to do with the argument that was presented to you rather than going off on tangents and responding to things you wish had been said but never were.

And it most certainly requires that you actually read what the other person wrote.

So once again, I ask you directly:

Are you saying that Deuteronomy 17 doesn't exist? Galatians 1 doesn't exist? The Bible routinely directs people to kill others for any number of offenses...one of which is simply not believing in god. The New Testament routinely admonishes entire towns and condemns them for destruction for having the temerity to turn away those that would preach Jesus.

It's part of the reason why the groups who commit most acts of terrorism in the United States and Europe are right-wing groups. They are religiously motivated to kill in the name of god.

quote:
The Bible passages are HISTORY.

Two problems:

First, the Bible is piss-poor history.

Second, you're making a double-standard. Somehow the Bible gets a pass when it commands people to kill in the name of god but the Koran does not.

quote:
It is not talking to the reader of the Bible

It most certainly is. Not one jot, not one tittle of the Law shall be changed till all be fulfilled.

Has all been fulfilled? If not, then you are still bound by the Law.

Perhaps that's the problem: The world did end, this is hell, and that's why you're so cranky.

quote:
t is an instruction for the elders of Israel to apply to specific circumstances.

Nope. It is instruction for all to apply to any circumstance they may find themselves in. That's what Jesus keeps saying. Not one jot, not one tittle of the law shall be changed till all be fulfilled.

quote:
Deuteronomy is also instruction to ancient Israel.

Just as I predicted:

"But that's the Old Testament!" I hear you cry. The hypocrisy in that statement alone disqualifies it, but let's not pretend that the New Testament doesn't also call for the death of apostates:

Galatians:

1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

And Luke:

19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Are you saying those passages don't exist in the Bible?

Is lying for Jesus not a sin? And since that last passage is supposed to be something that Jesus said, is lying about Jesus for Jesus not a sin?

You need to read the posts you're responding to before you respond, Faith. Otherwise, you look like a fool.

quote:
NO, THE BIBLE DOES NOT ORDER ANYONE TO KILL.

Except it does...which you would remember if you had actually read my post:

So when Deuteronomy 17 says that those people are to be put to death, it doesn't mean they're supposed to die? That's strange because it directly tells who is supposed to carry out the killing:

17:7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

The Bible directly orders people to kill.

Simply for not believing in the Bible's god.

It's like you've never actually read the Bible, Faith. It's like you let someone else tell you what it says.

How Catholic of you...pre-Vatican II, of course.

Are you saying Deuteronomy 17:7 doesn't exist?

The Koran DOES give instructions TO THE READER, to attack and kill people NOW.

As does the Bible. And much more frequently. It's part of the reason that the groups who perform the most acts of terrorism in the United States and Europe are right-wing Christians.

quote:
You could learn something if you took what I'm saying seriously.

All I have learned is that you don't actually read before responding. If you took this conversation seriously, you could learn something.

All you are doing is regurgitating bigoted dogma.

The irony is strong in you.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 708 by Faith, posted 02-10-2017 10:47 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 719 of 779 (799635)
02-12-2017 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 716 by Tangle
02-11-2017 12:53 PM


Re: jurisdiction
Tangle writes:

ringo writes:

That's not letting them off scot-free


It is you know

No it isn't. Your own example says that the prosecutors, "went ahead with the other charges." They could have been convicted on the other charges, even if they weren't. The prosecutors had a backup plan to prevent them from getting off scot-free, as they always would.

Tangle writes:

... the second is mitigation which is used by your brilliant lawyer to reduce the sentence....


I realize that the term "mitigation" has a specific connotation in legalese. I wasn't using it that way. If you have a better term for what actually happens, I'm all ears.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 716 by Tangle, posted 02-11-2017 12:53 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 722 by Tangle, posted 02-12-2017 1:51 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 720 of 779 (799636)
02-12-2017 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 717 by Modulous
02-11-2017 1:14 PM


Re: jurisdiction
Modulous writes:

Provocation is mitigatory.
Self-defence is exculpatory.


Since provocation is an integral part of a self-defence claim, the two can not be separated.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 717 by Modulous, posted 02-11-2017 1:14 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 721 by Modulous, posted 02-12-2017 1:39 PM ringo has responded

  
RewPrev1
...
4647
48
49505152Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017