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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
Percy
Member
Posts: 17965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 617 of 662 (843649)
11-19-2018 9:14 PM


Mass Shooting at Hospital in Chicago
On iPad, keeping short: Gunman, 3 others dead after shooting several others at Chicago hospital

You damn gun nuts. You damn gun nuts.

—Percy


    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 618 of 662 (843722)
11-20-2018 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 616 by ICANT
11-19-2018 4:29 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

I don't have any intention of blowing anyone's head off unless they are trying to blow my head off, my wife's or someone near me.


I was talking about the moral right, not the intention. As I pointed out, Jesus told you not to resist evil. He told you to turn the other cheek.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 616 by ICANT, posted 11-19-2018 4:29 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 619 by ICANT, posted 11-20-2018 3:42 PM ringo has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 619 of 662 (843741)
11-20-2018 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 618 by ringo
11-20-2018 11:45 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi ringo

ringo writes:

I was talking about the moral right, not the intention. As I pointed out, Jesus told you not to resist evil. He told you to turn the other cheek.

If someone strikes me on one cheek I will offer the other cheek. After that he better have more skills than I have as I don't have a third cheek. Neither did God give any directions after I turned the second cheek.

But no place in the Bible tells me to let someone shoot at me.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 618 by ringo, posted 11-20-2018 11:45 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 620 by ringo, posted 11-21-2018 11:14 AM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 620 of 662 (843773)
11-21-2018 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 619 by ICANT
11-20-2018 3:42 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

I don't have a third cheek.


You always have an "other" cheek.

ICANT writes:

Neither did God give any directions after I turned the second cheek.


Yes He did. "Resist not evil" (Matthew 5:39) covers any number of cheeks.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 619 by ICANT, posted 11-20-2018 3:42 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 621 of 662 (843820)
11-21-2018 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 614 by ICANT
11-19-2018 4:09 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

Percy writes:

You still have it backwards. If you claim that the sun will rise in the west tomorrow, YOU are the one who needs a reason. If you claim that there was a "change in nature", YOU are the one who needs a reason.

The same place he/she would go to buy a gun if all guns were banned. The black market.

Incompetent as ever, I see. That quote isn't anything I said. You're actually quoting Ringo from Message 1233 in the Creation thread. Do you ever proofread what you write?

I started my last message with, "Congratulation on avoiding the question," but given these new miscues I guess further congratulations are in order.

You're actually responding to this part of my message:

Percy writes:

So you live in Florida, which has no law requiring background checks. Of course any federally licensed gun seller must conduct a background check whether it's at a Florida gun show or not, but no background check is required for private sales in Florida. Gee, I wonder from whom a gun buyer who knew he wouldn't pass a background check would buy a firearm?

Your answer of "the black market" is wrong. He would simply purchase his weapon from any seller who was not a federally licensed gun seller, in other words, private parties.

Gun shows only allow licensed gun dealers to have booths at gun shows.

You've been wrong so many times that I doubt this very much, but it's beside the point. How many private sellers are selling so many guns that they would need a booth? Private sales happen at gun shows all the time, and private sellers have no need for a booth if they're only selling one or a few weapons:

So private sellers do it like this:

One would presume that in what follows you would describe how private sellers do it, but you don't. You instead ask questions:

How would you propose to get individuals to do a background check before they delivered a gun to someone?

Uh, use the services often provided at gun shows, and that should be a required part of all gun shows, like this:

Have you ever been to a gun show?

Have you ever proofread your messages before clicking send so that you can see how poorly organized they are?

You asked this question once before, and the answer is still no. Why would I go to a show full of people whose brains have become addled by the dopamine jolt provided with every squeeze of the trigger?

Probably not because people who go to gun shows go to buy a gun or to sell an antique gun to one of the antique dealers.

I don't know what weird point you're trying to make, but obviously both businesses and people go to gun shows to buy and/or sell guns. The guns could be new, old or antique.

An individual just wanting to sell a gun just runs a ad in the little shopper paper and usually the gun is sold before the paper hits the streets. As the gun dealers get advance notice of guns for sale.

All guns should be registered, and the background check would be carried out as part of any transfer of title.

Percy writes:

x`One of the lies that Trump likes to tell the most at his campaign rallies is that Democrats want open borders. Even the most rabid Trumpublican, assuming he's informed, would know that's not true.

Then why did Senator Schumer kill the $20 billion bill to fund the border wall for 1 3/4 million dreamers when the democrats had only asked for 800,000?

Sounds like the democrats want open borders to me.

Sounds like the Democrats understand that a wall is not the best way to insure border security. Which I already explained to you once. You seem to forget a lot of stuff. Short term memory problems?

Percy writes:

You're misremembering. It looks like you're talking about the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, signed into law by Reagan in November of 1986. No one ever wanted the border closed or would want the border closed, not the Republicans or the Democrats.

When I mention closing the border I am talking about everything between the legal entry points of entry. And that was what they promised Reagan they would do for the amnesty.

That's not the definition of closing the border. That's just border security.

Had that happened we would not have 12 million at the present.

12 million what? Illegal immigrants? Since a border wall would do little to stem the flow of illegal immigrants, that is false.

Percy writes:

But Trump *is* lying when he says Democrats are for open borders. They are not. No one is for open borders, and no one is for closed borders.

Then they should put up the money to build the wall.

Again, a border wall would do little to stem the flow of illegal immigrants.

But do you now understand that you're misusing the terms "open borders" and "closed borders". No one is for either one. That's why Trump is lying when he says Democrats want open borders. Both Democrats and Republicans are for border security, but Democrats believe a border wall won't provide that security, while Trumpublicans believe without any evidence that it will. True Republicans, if they dared speak, would probably agree with the Democrats.

Have you read Jar's post about what damage a border wall would do to property owners along our southern border?

Look up the Maginot Line some time. Building a wall only means people have to find a way to circumvent it. They'll go over, around and through it. At the end of Message 591 I described meaningful approaches to stemming the flow of illegal immigrants - you ignored it.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 614 by ICANT, posted 11-19-2018 4:09 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 622 by ICANT, posted 11-22-2018 2:57 AM Percy has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 622 of 662 (843859)
11-22-2018 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 621 by Percy
11-21-2018 2:23 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Percy

Percy writes:

I described meaningful approaches to stemming the flow of illegal immigrants - you ignored it.

I worked in a foreign country where I had to have a work permit that had to be renewed every year for a $1250 fee my employer had to pay. My employer was responsible for a place to stay, all medical expenses, all educational expenses and a living wage. Anyone caught using help that did not have a work permit was fined $50,000 per person for first offense. The fine doubled for every offense after that. Guess what, they did not have a second offense.

Put the lid on the cookie jar and they will either stay home or go somewhere else.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 621 by Percy, posted 11-21-2018 2:23 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 623 by Pressie, posted 11-22-2018 4:14 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 639 by Percy, posted 11-24-2018 4:37 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 640 by Capt Stormfield, posted 11-24-2018 4:50 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1965
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 623 of 662 (843861)
11-22-2018 4:14 AM
Reply to: Message 622 by ICANT
11-22-2018 2:57 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
I live in a country which you will classify as foreign. To me America is a foreign country with strange and quaint inhabitants.

Where I live anyone can buy serious automatic weapons for 10 bucks inside the country and at the boundaries. Lots of those guns are American made. And the crime rate is horrendously high.

Very, very strict gun control is desperately needed. That way it would be much more difficult for criminals to get their hands on guns.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 622 by ICANT, posted 11-22-2018 2:57 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 624 by ICANT, posted 11-22-2018 4:23 PM Pressie has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 624 of 662 (843913)
11-22-2018 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 623 by Pressie
11-22-2018 4:14 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Pressie

Pressie writes:

That way it would be much more difficult for criminals to get their hands on guns.

Criminals do not obey laws so explain to me how gun control laws would make it more difficult for the criminals to get guns.

Laws are obeyed only by law abiding citizens.

BTW if they can get automatic weapons for $10 they were not made in the US. I can't afford an automatic weapon, Semi-auto yes.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 623 by Pressie, posted 11-22-2018 4:14 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 625 by Pressie, posted 11-23-2018 3:56 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 626 by ringo, posted 11-23-2018 11:30 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 641 by Percy, posted 11-24-2018 4:52 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1965
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 625 of 662 (843939)
11-23-2018 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 624 by ICANT
11-22-2018 4:23 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

Criminals do not obey laws so explain to me how gun control laws would make it more difficult for the criminals to get guns.

Thoroughly investigate anyone trying to buy a gun of any kind. Make sure the guns are kept in safes where criminals can't steal them. Ban any civilian from owning assault weapons and/or machine guns. You need more?

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 624 by ICANT, posted 11-22-2018 4:23 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 629 by ICANT, posted 11-23-2018 4:11 PM Pressie has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 626 of 662 (843951)
11-23-2018 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 624 by ICANT
11-22-2018 4:23 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

Criminals do not obey laws so explain to me how gun control laws would make it more difficult for the criminals to get guns.


If it was illegal to have a loaded gun by your front door, ready to blow the heads off of any intruders, would you obey the law?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 624 by ICANT, posted 11-22-2018 4:23 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 627 by ICANT, posted 11-23-2018 3:08 PM ringo has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 627 of 662 (843980)
11-23-2018 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 626 by ringo
11-23-2018 11:30 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi ringo

ringo writes:

If it was illegal to have a loaded gun by your front door, ready to blow the heads off of any intruders, would you obey the law?

My house is my castle. I make the rules that apply inside my house.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 626 by ringo, posted 11-23-2018 11:30 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 628 by ringo, posted 11-23-2018 3:15 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 642 by Percy, posted 11-24-2018 5:06 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 628 of 662 (843983)
11-23-2018 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 627 by ICANT
11-23-2018 3:08 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

My house is my castle. I make the rules that apply inside my house.


Yes, it's clear that you disregard God's rules when it suits you.

But the point here is about "law-abiding gun owners". If you make your own rules, you are not law-abiding.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 627 by ICANT, posted 11-23-2018 3:08 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 630 by ICANT, posted 11-23-2018 4:19 PM ringo has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 629 of 662 (843985)
11-23-2018 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 625 by Pressie
11-23-2018 3:56 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Pressie,

Pressie writes:

Thoroughly investigate anyone trying to buy a gun of any kind. Make sure the guns are kept in safes where criminals can't steal them. Ban any civilian from owning assault weapons and/or machine guns. You need more?

That sounds simple doesn't it?

But how would you propose to investigate anyone trying to buy a gun of any kind?

They already do that if they are going through a licensed dealer.

But if someone is buying from a gun runner there are no questions asked only cash exchanged for the weapon.

We have borders where guns can go back and forth across them like the wind blowing.

So any criminal who is in the gun running business can sell guns on either side of the borders.

Pressie writes:

Make sure the guns are kept in safes where criminals can't steal them.

Thieves steal gold out of fort Knox. So how do you propose to put a safe in a house that a thief can't steal them from?

Pressie writes:

Ban any civilian from owning assault weapons and/or machine guns.

It has been illegal for civilians to own weapons that fire automatic all of my life. A machine gun is a weapon that fires automatic just pull the trigger and it will fire as long as you hold the trigger down. But if it is a belt fed and the belt is long enough you can melt the barrel.

I would not want to go to war with the AR15 or Ak47 semi-automatic that most want to classify as an assault weapon.

In fact I don't own but one semi-automatic weapon. A 1955 10 shot magazine in grip 22 cal. pistol. The sweetest thing I have ever shot.

I prefer pump action rifles and shotguns for long guns and revolvers for pistols.

Full automatic and semi-automatic weapons can jam and cost you, your life. I have never had a pump action fail to load and fire. Neither a revolver that refused to turn and fire the next bullet. You do have to maintain your tools for them to work properly.

Pressie writes:

You need more?

You haven't proposed anything yet to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

Laws of any kind only effect what law abiding people do. Lawless people don't care what the law is.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 625 by Pressie, posted 11-23-2018 3:56 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 631 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-23-2018 4:34 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply
 Message 633 by DrJones*, posted 11-23-2018 5:42 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 643 by Percy, posted 11-24-2018 5:49 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 646 by Pressie, posted 11-26-2018 6:32 AM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 630 of 662 (843987)
11-23-2018 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 628 by ringo
11-23-2018 3:15 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi ringo

ringo writes:

But the point here is about "law-abiding gun owners". If you make your own rules, you are not law-abiding.

I would be abiding by the law in my house. As I said I make the rules that apply in my house.

The government says we can't control what a person does in their bedroom and neither will they control what goes on in my house.

God :Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 628 by ringo, posted 11-23-2018 3:15 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 632 by DrJones*, posted 11-23-2018 5:41 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 638 by ringo, posted 11-23-2018 9:13 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 644 by Percy, posted 11-24-2018 5:56 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply
 Message 645 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-24-2018 6:51 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1893
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 631 of 662 (843988)
11-23-2018 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 629 by ICANT
11-23-2018 4:11 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Laws of any kind only effect what law abiding people do. Lawless people don't care what the law is.

Yep, that's why we don't even bother with laws against murder. Lawless people don't care that murder is against the law.

Laws are not just about preventing crimes, they also allow law breakers to be held accountable for their behavior by society when they are caught.

You guys always whine that if a proposal does not solve every problem it cannot solve any problems. Well, Fuck you!


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 629 by ICANT, posted 11-23-2018 4:11 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
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