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Author Topic:   Where Did Big Bang Energy Come From?
Eta_Carinae
Member (Idle past 898 days)
Posts: 547
From: US
Joined: 11-15-2003


Message 31 of 84 (183548)
02-06-2005 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by daaaaaBEAR
02-06-2005 3:39 PM


Re: Comment
I can't affirm that, nor do I try.

What preceding theories????

This message has been edited by Admin_Eta, 02-06-2005 15:42 AM


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1.61803
Member
Posts: 2356
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 32 of 84 (183733)
02-07-2005 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by daaaaaBEAR
02-06-2005 3:04 PM


Re: I'll give you the sum total....
daaaaaBEAR writes:

It's a message of salvation for our fallen world.

It is compiled midrash from ancient judiac traditions and babyalonian mythology mixed with gnostic and christian writings cannonized by the Catholic church and touted as the word of God. It is a message of what ever one cares to tweeze out of the text. Salvation, damnation, redemption, condemnation.
creation, destruction. As the tele-evangelist says: "Get that credit card out, I know your already in debt...but you must sow that seed of faith says the Lord." The bible says what people want it to say, and what ever message they wish to deliver. IMO.


"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4743
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 33 of 84 (183793)
02-07-2005 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by 1.61803
02-07-2005 2:48 PM


T o p i c !
This is not the topic of this thread. Let's get back on course.
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positronic_pains
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 84 (188235)
02-24-2005 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by daaaaaBEAR
02-06-2005 1:07 AM


Matter creation from nothing...
.... is in fact possible.

Hello everyone, first post, I hope I don't make too many mistakes!

Back to creating matter. It happens all the time. Pairs of particle/anti-particle pairs spring into existence from nothing, and no-one bats an eyelid. A simple consequence of Quantum Theory. Of course, they tend to annihiliate each other pretty fast, so as not to violate the uncertainty principle, but in certain circumstances, such as close to the event horizon of a black hole, one of the pair of virtual particles can cross the horizon whilst the other wanders off, becoming "real". Bingo, something from nothing. (Check out any books/websites about "Hawking Radiation" for more on this.)

Well, sort of, anyway. Of course, I have simplified things, but my point is that your comment about a random mass appearing by itself being ludicrous is inherently false.


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daaaaaBEAR
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 84 (188292)
02-24-2005 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by positronic_pains
02-24-2005 5:58 PM


Re: Matter creation from nothing...
ok.... but that example of something coming from nothing is in an established universe, not nothing. How can matter come about when there is nothing else to trigger it? And this is our universe not particles.
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sidelined 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 36 of 84 (188416)
02-25-2005 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by daaaaaBEAR
02-24-2005 10:22 PM


Re: Matter creation from nothing...
daaaaaBear

Well I think the key may be to establish what constitutes nothing.It may well be that nothingness as far as our universe is concerned does not require that the condoition of utter emptiness be established.There us a limit imposed on our universe that the Heisenberg uncertainty principle shows to be a consequence of the wave nature of our world.

The position/momentum of particles as well as the energy/time relation is found to adhere to a formula describing it.

{delta x}{delta p}>h-bar/2
{delta E]


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sidelined 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 37 of 84 (188417)
02-25-2005 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by daaaaaBEAR
02-24-2005 10:22 PM


Re: Matter creation from nothing...
daaaaaBear

Well I think the key may be to establish what constitutes nothing.It may well be that nothingness as far as our universe is concerned does not require that the condoition of utter emptiness be established.There us a limit imposed on our universe that the Heisenberg uncertainty principle shows to be a consequence of the wave nature of our world.

The position/momentum of particles as well as the energy/time relation is found to adhere to a formula describing it.

{delta x}{delta p}>h-bar/2
{delta E]


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 Message 35 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-24-2005 10:22 PM daaaaaBEAR has not yet responded

  
sidelined 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 38 of 84 (188418)
02-25-2005 8:00 AM


What gives here? I posted a rely and only part of my message appeared.I edit to correct and the same thing happened.
  
gnojek
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 84 (188552)
02-25-2005 5:06 PM


Google "M theory" or "superstring theory"
Hi, I think these questions can be answered by M-theory, or what has recently grown out of Superstring theory.

Here are some links:
http://www.superstringtheory.fanspace.com/
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-th/pdf/9805/9805177.pdf

I think the gist of the speculative origins of the big bang come from the energy of two colliding "branes." This caused a bubble to form and expand, the energy of the collision is what gave us all the matter and energy in our universe.

I think the notion of there being "nothing" before the BB is becoming outdated. It was really popular conception of the BB since really physicists just said that the theory breaks down at a certain point (at the Planck time and when the universe was at the Plank length.)
http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae281.cfm


  
les benton
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 84 (190056)
03-04-2005 1:18 PM


In the beginning,what we call, space was absolute-zero. This caused an opposite reaction of absolute-all. "For every force there is an equal and opposite force". The "opposite force was an explosion. The opposite force-explosion created infinite matter. The infinite "matter" caused "everything". Including God.
An honest question of rebuttal could be; if zero existed how did the laws of physics apply.
The answer could be that the laws of physics always apply.
This is very interesting.
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sidelined 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 41 of 84 (190323)
03-06-2005 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by les benton
03-04-2005 1:18 PM


les benton

In the beginning,what we call, space was absolute-zero.

What is meant by absolute zero and how do you arrive at this assumption?

This caused an opposite reaction of absolute-all

Why do you think that Newtons third law of motion applies here?

This message has been edited by sidelined, 06 March 2005 15:14 AM


Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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chark
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 84 (206480)
05-09-2005 12:55 PM


The cause of the Big Bang
Sorry to interupt your current argument but I have a theory on precisely how the Big Bang happened. Not saying that God did not create the universe but how it happened. I posted something in a different forum about how energy still has the properties of gravity which is the basis of my speculation:

(energy has gravity)"I believe it does but we can not effectively measure it since one atom contains in the upper billions of joules of energy and since we can not contain large enough amounts of energy to equal the corresponding amount of matter (according to E=mc2) in a large enough quanity to measure its gravity, I don't know of any current way to measure "the gravity of energy" outside of knowing the exact amounts of matter and energy in our sun. But if energy does emit gravity then that could help answer questions about dark matter. Dark matter is the made up factor in wide scale physics. I am saying that dark matter is actually light matter. That is all of the light, heat, and radiation energy in the universe (or gravitational vicinity) that is throwing off calculations."

Outside my light matter idea I applied this to the Big Bang and black holes. Black holes have a large amount of matter in a small amount of space (I prefer to beleive the center of a black hole is made up of broken apart neutrons) and its escape velocity is equal to are greater than the speed of light. So I thought about how an object could escape a black hole and I did not come up with a way. If nothing could escape a black hole how did the Big Bang happen. The Big Bang contracts and expands over and over again correct. Well once it starts contracting the center of the universe contains a black hole long before all of the matter reaches the center. Therefore the Big Bang is the destruction of a universe sized black hole. This is where energy's gravity comes into play. A normal sized black hole is contsantly absorbing light, heat, and radiation energy and they are all going at the speed of light. The speed of light is also fast enough to maintain an orbit around the center of gravity in the black hole. Once enough energy is orbiting the black hole the gravity will switch to the outside of the black hole rather than the inside causing it to fall apart in an explosion, "a small bang". If a black hole is formed in the center of the universe before all of the mass and energy reach it, it is possible that a Big Bang could occur. The energy created from the Big Bang would break apart the remaining mass in the universe back into hydrogen such as studies show, starting the universe process all over again.


  
rock4jc
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 84 (208813)
05-16-2005 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by berberry
01-29-2005 2:13 AM


Re: Paley's watch redux
Let's say, for example, you were the only person in the entire universe. You would eventually get pretty lonely. If you had the power to create some people to have a relationship with, would you? What I am trying to say is that God created people to have a relationship with, unfortunatly sin created distance between God and people.
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 84 (208907)
05-16-2005 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Antihero
01-28-2005 3:59 AM


How did energy it self come about, before the big bang, im kinda confussed .

I just finished reading the thread thus far and I see a lot of speculation with plenty of imperical questions unanswered. That's why I believe that the 1st law of td has eternally been operative and that energy had no beginning. Eta says he knows the BB happened via a hot singularity, but he's got the biggy problem of an answer to your question relative to operative laws of physics as observed in the universe.

My ID hypothesis doesn't answer all the questions either, but at least it satisfies the td laws and the energy question you pose which the BB model does not. It also satisfies the Biblical record far more completely than the mainstream ID creationist model of a young universe, as well as the questions about design and the wondrous complexity observed, so you can have your cake and eat it too! :cool: It is as follows:

In Jehovah God's Universe; time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence.


The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw
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Dead Parrot
Member (Idle past 3084 days)
Posts: 151
From: Wellington, NZ
Joined: 04-13-2005


Message 45 of 84 (208924)
05-17-2005 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Buzsaw
05-16-2005 11:58 PM


In Jehovah God's Universe; time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence.

Hi Buz,
How does that tie in with the expansion of the universe? Or do you include a version of "tired light" to explain the apparent movement?

Also, where does the hydrogen come from to fuel the stars? you need something for nothing for an infinite universe, too...


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