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Author Topic:   How old is the Earth?!
John
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 65 (12759)
07-04-2002 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by blitz77
07-04-2002 7:04 AM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by blitz77:
[b]Take the uranium-lead dating method. This method relies on the ratio of uranium-radiogenic lead for dating. However, in almost all deposits of uranium, there is also thorium, which produces radiogenic lead. Also, during the decay of uranium-lead, it produces helium. There is simply not enough helium in the atmosphere (less than 1/2000ths of the required amount) that is expected from this. You might say that it escapes the atmosphere. This is not true. Helium is quite a lot heavier than hydrogen and does not escape in significant amounts. Indeed, with the earth circulating around the solar system it picks up intersolar gas/dust, increasing the amount of helium on the earth.[/QUOTE]
[/b]
1) All of the dating methods have problems, but they do all give the same dates within reasonable margins of error. Its like trying to figure out what time it is when all of the clocks in the house are off by a few minutes one way or the other.
2) http://www.holysmoke.org/icr6dud.htm
quote:
Now take carbon dating. Did you know that C14 is currently being created 25% faster than it is destroyed?
Actually, it is being released rapidly via the burning of fossil fuels. Nuclear tests in the fifties added a big chunk as well. So c-14 isn't used on anything very recent.
quote:
That the level of C14 is not in equilibrium? If you take the figures and take it back to a time where there is no C14, it gives the date of the earth as <10 000 yrs.
Fossil fuels have been used extensively for two or three hundred years at most. It is inaccurate to extrapolate backwards from today, without accounting for that.
quote:
Now take solar dust. If the universe really is billions of years old, at the rate dust falls on planets and solar bodies, the moon should be in dozens of feet of dust. And so should the earth. That is what NASA feared when they landed probes on the moon, that they would be swmaped with dust. This dust contains lots of radioactive elements, such as iridium. Now the earth has nowhere near the expected levels of these elements.
Based upon an inaccurate estimate of cosmic dust.
quote:
Now take the faint-sun paradox. If the earth really is all those billions of years old, the earth should have received ~25% less light then compared to now, making the earth freezingly cold. Reaction processes would be very slow. There is no geological evidence that the earth was significantly cooler all those years ago. Ice ages don't count.
Ok. Fine. So what? Before the sun ignited such would have been the case. But earths own gravitational contraction would have heated it to a liguid anyway.
There is no geological evidence of anything from before the Earth's crust solidified.
quote:
Take the moon. If the moon really is as old as people think it is, then it should have escaped long ago. The current rate the moon is moving away is 4cm / yr. It would have been even higher in the past. Extrapolating backwards, the ABSOLUTE maximum given ideal conditions and assuptions would have it less than 1.4 billion years old.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/moonrec.html ... note the part that states that the moon is now retreating anomalously rapidly.
quote:
Take salt in the oceans. If the earth really is as old as the billions of years, the oceans should be a helluva lot saltier than they are.
Salt doesn't get to the ocean and stay. It settles out into the ocean floor-- directly or in the bodies of dead ocean critters. It is then lifted back out by plate techtonics. ----- off the top of my head
quote:
Then take magnetic reversals. Evolutionists always thought they took millions of years to occur. In April 1989, a paper appeared in Earth and Planetary Science Letters by Robert S. Coe and Michel Prevotfound a thin lava layer which had 90 degrees of reversal recorded continuously in it and they calculated that the layer had to cool down within a matter of 15 days or less.
Cite.
------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by blitz77, posted 07-04-2002 7:04 AM blitz77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by blitz77, posted 07-06-2002 5:56 AM John has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 65 (12760)
07-04-2002 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by blitz77
07-04-2002 7:04 AM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by blitz77:
[b]Take the uranium-lead dating method. This method relies on the ratio of uranium-radiogenic lead for dating. However, in almost all deposits of uranium, there is also thorium, which produces radiogenic lead. Also, during the decay of uranium-lead, it produces helium. There is simply not enough helium in the atmosphere (less than 1/2000ths of the required amount) that is expected from this. You might say that it escapes the atmosphere. This is not true. Helium is quite a lot heavier than hydrogen and does not escape in significant amounts. Indeed, with the earth circulating around the solar system it picks up intersolar gas/dust, increasing the amount of helium on the earth.[/QUOTE]
[/b]
1) All of the dating methods have problems, but they do all give the same dates within reasonable margins of error. Its like trying to figure out what time it is when all of the clocks in the house are off by a few minutes one way or the other.
2) http://www.holysmoke.org/icr6dud.htm
quote:
Now take carbon dating. Did you know that C14 is currently being created 25% faster than it is destroyed?
Actually, it is being released rapidly via the burning of fossil fuels. Nuclear tests in the fifties added a big chunk as well. So c-14 isn't used on anything very recent.
quote:
That the level of C14 is not in equilibrium? If you take the figures and take it back to a time where there is no C14, it gives the date of the earth as <10 000 yrs.
Fossil fuels have been used extensively for two or three hundred years at most. It is inaccurate to extrapolate backwards from today, without accounting for that.
quote:
Now take solar dust. If the universe really is billions of years old, at the rate dust falls on planets and solar bodies, the moon should be in dozens of feet of dust. And so should the earth. That is what NASA feared when they landed probes on the moon, that they would be swmaped with dust. This dust contains lots of radioactive elements, such as iridium. Now the earth has nowhere near the expected levels of these elements.
Based upon an inaccurate estimate of cosmic dust.
quote:
Now take the faint-sun paradox. If the earth really is all those billions of years old, the earth should have received ~25% less light then compared to now, making the earth freezingly cold. Reaction processes would be very slow. There is no geological evidence that the earth was significantly cooler all those years ago. Ice ages don't count.
Ok. Fine. So what? Before the sun ignited such would have been the case. But earths own gravitational contraction would have heated it to a liguid anyway.
There is no geological evidence of anything from before the Earth's crust solidified.
quote:
Take the moon. If the moon really is as old as people think it is, then it should have escaped long ago. The current rate the moon is moving away is 4cm / yr. It would have been even higher in the past. Extrapolating backwards, the ABSOLUTE maximum given ideal conditions and assuptions would have it less than 1.4 billion years old.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/moonrec.html ... note the part that states that the moon is now retreating anomalously rapidly.
quote:
Take salt in the oceans. If the earth really is as old as the billions of years, the oceans should be a helluva lot saltier than they are.
Salt doesn't get to the ocean and stay. It settles out into the ocean floor-- directly or in the bodies of dead ocean critters. It is then lifted back out by plate techtonics. ----- off the top of my head
------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by blitz77, posted 07-04-2002 7:04 AM blitz77 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Joe Meert, posted 07-04-2002 1:05 PM John has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 65 (12771)
07-04-2002 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Percy
07-04-2002 4:15 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Percipient:
Because the original organic material of fossil fuels is much more than 50,000 years old, the effect from fossil fuels runs in the opposite direction. The carbon it contributes is effectively of infinite age.
Yikes.....
Makes perfect sense though. My mistake.
------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Percy, posted 07-04-2002 4:15 PM Percy has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 65 (12899)
07-06-2002 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by blitz77
07-06-2002 5:56 AM


You'll understand if I don't correct error which have already been corrected by myself and others.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by blitz77:
[b]Ummm, why would fossil fuels release so much of the stuff into the atmosphere?{/b][/QUOTE]
I have already been set straight on this one.
quote:
You didn't notice the implications of the faint-sun paradox. As you all know, O-18 is more common during periods of cold. There is no evidence from ice cores in Antartica that in early earth the atmosphere was cold, as it should have after the hundreds of millions of years after the earth formed.
There are no ice cores from Antartica that are that old. The ice in Antarctica is about 33-34 million years old-- something like 4 billion years off base.
------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by blitz77, posted 07-06-2002 5:56 AM blitz77 has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 65 (12952)
07-07-2002 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by blitz77
07-07-2002 2:15 AM


quote:
Originally posted by blitz77:
As proof of the unreliability of the radiometric methods consider the fact that in nearly every case dates from recent lava flows have come back excessively large. One example is the rocks from the Kaupelehu Flow, Hualalai Volcano in Hawaii which was known to have erupted in 1800-1801. These rocks were dated by a variety of different methods. Of 12 dates reported the youngest was 140 million years and the oldest was 2.96 billion years. The dates average 1.41 billion years.
If I'm not mistaken, none of the radiometric dating methods are reliable for such a recent date as 1800 (except c-14, which only works for organics)
[QUOTE][/b]Helium does not escape into the atmosphere. Hydrogen does (which is how oxygen is made in the atmosphere, by UV hitting water vapor and splitting it into hydrogen and oxygen), but helium is a lot heavier than hydrogen. Give me some articles which show that helium escapes into space faster than it enters our atmosphere from interplanetary gas.[/B][/QUOTE]
from Infidels.org
Is the Earth Young?
------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com
[This message has been edited by John, 07-07-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by blitz77, posted 07-07-2002 2:15 AM blitz77 has not replied

  
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