Did Jesus die in vain?

Hello Heinrik,Don't worry, I am not going to bite you. We may have had a misunderstanding, but I won't let that stand in the way of a little sympathy I have for you. Because of it, I want to warn you. Having put your topic here in the Free For All forum, you run the risk of attracting a lot of heated debate, with the possibility of emotions running amok. There will be no administrator to keep people in check. The only way to deal with it will be to adopt a Teflon attitude, so to speak.Having said that, I want to react to your topic. It hinges on the reality of the concept of sin. I don't think that it's an objective fact that the world is full of sin, at least not divinely proclaimed sin, because I don't believe God exists. I think that what many believers think God has proclaimed as being sinful, is in fact just seen as undesirable by society, or parts thereof.Take homosexuality, for example. By many believers it is regarded as sinful, because it is "an abomination in the eye of God". But suppose that God does not exist. Then what they believe is not true, and homosexuality is not a sin at all, at least not by divine order. It may still be viewed by many as something that does not bear thinking about, but that may be because of other hidden, or even subconscious motives.The fact that the world is full of undesirable behaviour says more about society, in my opinion, than about the truth of the proposition that a man died for the sins of mankind two thousand years ago.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

I can act as if, though. From the viewpoint of a believer, there are several possible ways in which this situation can make sense.

• First of all, there are many non-believers in the world. They sin by definition.
• Then there are those believers who's mind is strong, but whose flesh is weak. They sin too.
• Next, there are those who believe that people, even believers, are inherently sinful. There will be sin.
• There are also those who believe Jesus died for all sin, even future sin. So a small sin may not be so harmful, as long as one repents.

If you want me to quit posting here, just say so. I'll be happy to oblige.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

But don't you see? That's the beauty of it! We can happily keep on sinning in the knowledge that our sins are forgiven anyway. (Except maybe for some very heinous sins.) It's a win-win situation: you reap the benefits of your sins, and in the end you still go to Heaven.What a nice religion, with in-built hypocrisy.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

It gets even better. If something in a religion bothers you, you can give it a new interpretation, or, if you're not particularly inventive, you can pronounce it to be heretic. You can even start your own sect, the possibilities are endless. (In religion, the sky is most definitely not the limit.)In short: I don't think refutation is one of the strong points of religion.By the way, "Gospel mechanics", capital joke. The perfect antidote for rational thinking. It's even got its own exclusion principle. And, yes, I know it wasn't a joke. That makes it even funnier.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.