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Author Topic:   Did Jesus die in vain?
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 68 of 151 (458069)
02-27-2008 3:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by pelican
02-05-2008 2:13 AM


pelican writes:
quote:
Did Jesus truly die for our sins? It seems we are to be eternally grateful and yet the world is full of sin. Does this make sense?
This assumes that Jesus had anything to do with sin in the first place. It is quite conceivable that the mythology surrounding Jesus is simply incorrect. It may very well be that there is somebody who could "die for our sins" but that Jesus was not it.
Let's not forget: Jesus was of the opinion that the world was going to end a couple thousand years ago. He directly tells people that they will live to see the end. Well, unless we're going to say that there are 2000-year-old people running around, then perhaps it's because Jesus was not what people claim him to be.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by pelican, posted 02-05-2008 2:13 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by pelican, posted 02-28-2008 12:41 AM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 73 of 151 (458710)
03-01-2008 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by pelican
02-28-2008 12:41 AM


pelican responds to me:
quote:
I think it was a fair assumption to make as christians do believe this to be true.
True, but to accept that assumption makes the whole thread pointless. If we're going to accept Christian theology as accurate, then it necessarily follows that Jesus did not die "in vain" for our sins because that is what the theology insists. Christian theology rests upon the idea that Jesus, and specifically Jesus, "died for our sins." How can that possibly be "in vain" since that was the entire reason for Jesus' existence?
If we're going to consider the possibility that the death of Jesus failed to redeem mankind, then we must consider the possibility that it was because Jesus wasn't the one to do it. There are other things that we need to consider, yes, but that the mythology of Jesus is inaccurate is one of them.
quote:
What about you?
My religious opinions are for me and me alone. I take very strong care not to say what they are here because I do not wish people to have people say, "Well, of course you would say that...you're an X."

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by pelican, posted 02-28-2008 12:41 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by pelican, posted 03-01-2008 8:24 PM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 75 of 151 (458785)
03-02-2008 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by pelican
03-01-2008 8:24 PM


Re: disputing concepts and interpretations of the bible
pelican responds to me:
quote:
The accuracy of the bible is not in question in this thread.
Which, again, makes the entire thread pointless. If you're working with an A -> B and we are seeing ~B, then we have to consider the possibility that we have ~A as well as the possibility that A -/> B.
quote:
The debate is concerned with the concepts and interpretations of the bible, which are deadly serious.
But if you're going to accept the Bible, then there is no point in having the discussion because the Bible tells you what Jesus was here for and what his death was for. If you're going to question the outcome, then you necessarily question the premise.
You will note that I have not said that it is clear that Jesus wasn't the guy. I simply pointed out that one of the possible reasons is that Jesus wasn't the guy and that we need to take that possibility into account.
quote:
The assumptions of the meanings are those which I wish to dispute.
But apparently not all the way.
quote:
However, I feel if I personally am not prepared to stand up for my beliefs then I have no right to dispute anothers'.
Hah!
My penis is doing just fine, thank you. This has nothing to do with me. It has to do with responding to what I actually say, not what people wish I would say or expect me to say based upon their preconceived notions of what a person of a certain category are like. As soon as it becomes important for me to tell you what I do or do not believe, I'll let you know. Until then, get used to disappointment.
This isn't about me. I'm not the one making the claim. My statements stand or fall regardless of what I believe or don't. Why do you feel the need to know? How would you respond if I told you I was Bahai? Would the veracity of my statements change if you found out I were a member of the clergy? Would it matter which denomination? If not, then one has to wonder why you are so eager to find out. To what possible use could you put it?
If you didn't want a response to your question, then you shouldn't have asked it in a forum that invites response.
quote:
I've been called far worse than an x
Again, my penis is doing just fine, thank you. It has nothing to do with me wishing to avoid having my feelings hurt. It has to do with me wishing to avoid the thread being derailed by others' preconceived notions of what a person of a particular category thinks and feels, having them respond to those internally generated fantasies of what someone of that category thinks rather than to what was actually said.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by pelican, posted 03-01-2008 8:24 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by pelican, posted 03-02-2008 8:23 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
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